- Yankronym?
- GG Jeter roundup. The best (and, hopefully, in the end most accurate):
“Maybe this this vote was a conspiracy by the managers and players to hamstring the Yankees with an even uglier Jeter contract.â€
- Slegnacronym? (It’s unacronymous. At least they think we’ll get Manny.)
- FK it. I’ll link to it: Tyler Not-Durden’s InterLew, Part the One.
- Soxronym?
Cooking a batch of Rancho Gordo flageolets with Clark Summit ham hocks. Should be good. Had dinner last night here; great as always.
Bonus non-hot stove/non-ham hock link: How did this wastrel ever find his way to the White House?
4. Part the Next
Wait, what?
Pretty soon the front office and dugout will be 85% Gerens.
Once again, the A’s are lowballing their coaching staff.
There are a shocking large number of football players who “need” a scholarship, though.
It’s certainly different from the rest of D1 sports, but not quite as different as it pretends.
Oh, I know. Just funny to see Lew baldly state it like that. Someone should forward that link to someone …
I imagine you’re on it.
TWHS
Certainly not the team management’s fault. No sir.
2006: Acquired Frank Thomas and Milton Bradley
2007: Acquired Mike Piazza and Shannon Stewart
They meant the Piazza signing to be the equivalent of the Mariners signing Ichiro.
2006: A’s tarp the 3rd deck
FMI, when are most season tickets sold?
Whoa. Larry Baer is sitting right across from me at Peet’s. Any questions I should ask him?
Aaaand there he goes.
And in other unrelated neighborhood news …
Bonus non-hot stove/non-ham hock link: um … ptbnl?
Also: new sigline
Full of spectacular Bolognese food and a couple of bottles of very drinkable house red, I have no idea what you’re asking of me.
The Wagner Question? Brazilian sea monster? X-Factor song? 14 million people?
Ah. The X-factor is the UK version of American Idol, watched by ~14 million people, and one of this season’s finalists is a large, hairy, 54 year-old Brazilian man called Wagner Carrilho who is apparently not a very good singer at all.
Countdown to Tea Party 2014 primary challenge in 3 … 2 … 1 …
Yeah, they are both screwed if this election’s dynamic holds.
Obama has been pretty uniformly terrible on war-related issues (except to the extent New START counts).
During the primaries, I was convinced that foreign policy was the one and only area where he was more liberal than Clinton. I have no idea whether she would have been as bad as he’s been so far.
I think (largely based upon watching West Wing) it’s the area where someone without practical experience can be most easily bullied into hard line positions by “advisors” who say serious things about worst case scenarios.
LOL parenthetic. That’s about the extent of my expertise in forecasting that as well.
Yeah. It makes sense, but that’s why it comes to mind.
Bonus: I like it.
Food: speaking of, I now think this is the best normal pizza in SF. I used to favor these guys, who are excellent.
If you’re looking for Chicago style pizza, it finally exists in the bay area here.
Do you not consider Little Star or Zachery’s to be Chicago style? Haven’t tried Patxi’s yet but plan to give them a try at some point.
I’ll also try that Twin Peaks spot since I agree that there aren’t many good options for standard floppy pies. But for Neapolitan style pizza I really loved what I got at flour&water and for a thin NY slice I think Arinell’s is great.
No. They are deep dish (and LS is high-end deep dish), not stuffed pizza.
As for TP, if you loved flour&water you’re going to like it. It is (of course) much more conventional flavors and generally less fancy, but the crust is more similar than different.
Stuffed pizza looks like this:
That sure looks like Zachary’s.
Zachary’s does offer a real Chi style pizza, which is excellent. Patxi’s is also very good.
Maybe I’ve just always had the wrong thing from there.
Easy to do. Sometimes even in Chicago.
I had Little Star in Albany a few weeks ago and found it fantastic, the corn meal in the crust of the stuffed pizza was delightful. If they’re comparably good the next time I go they may jump above Zachary’s in my rankings. Not cheap, though.
I also liked Little Star more than Zachary’s, but I think they are (as nm says) deep dish, not stuffed.
An in the thin crust category Gioia >> Arinell
I’ve been wanting to try LS deep dish since having a slice of thin crust at the Solano Stroll, and your recommendations mean it will have to be soon.
Agreed about Gioia.
Poppy bait
That little fucker in the picture looks like pure evil. And I had no idea a murder of raccoons was really called a gaze (I’m still gonna call them a murder, though).
This is fun. I really like an implausibility of gnus. Some media skeptic came up with that one.
You know, you’re perfect in many ways and I’d consider challenging the current Mr. Poppy to a to-the-death-steel-cage-bare-knuckles-brawl to become the new Mr. Poppy, except for your illogical and misplaced hatred of raccoons. It’s too bad, too, because I think you would’ve really brightened up the garage.
She really tied the garage together?
This aggression will not stand, man.
She’s not your special lady friend, man.
There was another one in the tree outside our door the other night. He was even with the balcony railing, about ten feet away, and he was looking at me like he was gauging the distance to jump me. Freaked me out.
He was just trying to cuddle, Jean! C’mon!
I do not want to be racspooned.
Where’s mb and that euphemism dictionary?
I love racspooned. Awesome word.
Sal bait
fuck you, i want my happy meal toys.
The supes should have made a law that says you can put any toy you want in any junk food deal — but it has to be called a “Fuck You Meal.” See how many parents buy those.
It’s not that we hate muslims… it’s just that they’re the foxes in the henhouse.
No, seriously, we don’t hate muslims and we aren’t paranoid.
Minor League Free Agents list is out
“T.J. Beam” should be the name of a guy who’s bitten by a radioactive spider while undergoing reconstructive elbow surgery in Birmingham, AL.
Dontrelle Willis? Reclamation project?
Thanks, and go As.
Posnanski brings a possibility I had never considered.
Basically, the takeaway is that the current vote should be for a different award, and the Fielding Bible should be allowed to hand out GG awards.
Also, this:
How can the Yankees trade a free agent?
Thought question.
MB: How’s this for an ad buy?
I know a guy.
I wonder how much it would cost.
Whoa …
Crazy.
Although is this really that much energy, given the size?
Yes. At peak brightness, a supernova typically outshines its host galaxy.
So Easterbrook’s alien-doomsday-device theory gets better and better.
It’s a giant p orbital.
As LB would say, I love you.
But LB doesn’t understand why you love him…
dammit, I have to read the whole thread before I jump in with a science joke. FK you and the orbital you rode in on, andeux.
pi orbitals! fractal universe!
Ugh, other people’s vacation photos are so boring…
FF provides some Iwakuma videos:
1
2
3
4
Rivera can keep pitching literally forever with this zone.
Literally forever, like unto the end of time?
Until his robotics break down and he passes quietly into the computing cloud.
Silent but deadly
His strike zone does seem to be expanding infinitely…
25,000 light years left and right from each side of the strike zone
…with the energy of 100,000 supernovas.
AND HIS FASTBALL HAS A RATING WELL OVER 9,0000
Thanks, and go As.
(perfect positioning of that comma)
In Japan they count by the ten thousands
Well yeah, with yen you basically have to.
In former Soviet Russia, the ten thousands count by you
Wow – does it continue that way (hundred millions, trillions, … ). Is there no word in Japanese for billion?
2,000,000 = 20万(man) = Twenty “ten thousands”
10,000,000 = 100万 = One hundred “ten thousands”
100,000,000 = 1å„„(oku) = One “hundred million”
140,000,000 = 1å„„4000万 = One “hundred million” four thousand “ten thousands”
1,000,000,000 = 10å„„ = Ten “hundred millions”
1,000,000,000,000 = 1å…†(chou) = One “trillion”
There’s no Japanese word for “billion”. There’s a word for every fourth power up to 68.
Mazzarro + Marks = DeJesus
Thanks, and go As.
My first reaction: Seriously, DeJesus? That Sucks.
My second reaction: Hunh. 3 WAR.
no, he’s good — he’s the non-platonic ideal of sweeknee, without the extraneous k
or, subcronym
My third reaction: only signed through 2011, and for $6M? Boo.
Flipped in July, or walks for picks
Pick. Singular, most likely.
I really liked Marks and the A’s probably going to miss him more than Mazzaro. DeJesus was right on the fringe of earning Type A status when he got hurt (yep, a True Athletic) and missed the rest of the season for surgery on his wrist.
He’ll probably miss out on Type A status at the end of 2011, but at the time of his injury (late-July) their were a lot of teams interested in acquiring him for the 2010 pennant races. He can play CF when Crisp hurts himself but is probably better defensively in a corner.
Although I suppose this does open the possibility of trading Crisp and his fragile pinky.
Well… averaged about 145 games/year before that, so maybe not capital-T true.
Or Rajai. Trouble is, he’s got the best health skilz of any noncustian A’s OF.
Wrist injury. Ugh, welcome to nopowersville. He’ll fit in.
Not bone… a torn tendon between the thumb and the wrist. (Which is why half the media outlets say it was a thumb injury and the other half say it was the wrist.)
HFS!
My first reaction: nobody
fucks withtrades for DeJesus.OK, I’m officially excited for ’11. No, this isn’t a contention-maker in isolation, but a sign that Forst haz a plan.
Also: yes, this definitely means no Acronym. Yeah, if he goes to Slegnaheim or TX, that’s no good.
Go Red Sox. Acronym it up!
Heh.
Also: Yes, this definitely means the A’s plan to sign Iwakuma.
Yep.
Now if we could just get Marlon Byrd we have an all-similarity-score outfield with Coco.
Or if we get Mitch Maier and Jose Guillen we can reconstruct the 2009 Royals outfield.
Final nail in the coffin for Buck? Probably means Jackson’s gone, too.
Jackson’s going to bet non-tendered ’cause he doesn’t deserve $2.6 million. Still an outside chance the A’s pursue him at a lower guaranteed figure to back-up 1B/LF/DH.
right
I feel like we’ve been predicting “final nail in the coffin” for Buck for a while now…
YEARS.
Wasn’t his super-2 status the final nail?
The Travis Buck Romantic Haiku Corner was the beginning of the end.
Outfielders who have gone directly from KC to Oakland in the last decade:
Jeremy Giambi
Johnny Damon
Jermaine Dye
Emil Brown
Coco Crisp
David DeJesus
That’s quite a pipeline. Should we just open up the books on the Royals minor league system to find a couple of the A’s 2016 outfielders?
Great minds…
Dyson? Eibner?
Thanks, and go As.
Does that mean that the Royals are the new Yankees? Or maybe they’re the new KC Athletics, and we’re the new Yankees!
I hate us already!
I recall some talk a few years ago that DDJ was the most underrated player in baseball. Definitely happy to have him, although one year is one year. Bad news for Rajai, which is probably good, or it means they don’t expect anything from Sweeney, which would not be good news…
Also no spot for Carter.
Sacramento.
Thanks, and go As.
I don’t expect anything from Sweeney, and would consider it bad news if he were penciled in as the starter at the beginning of spring training.
I suspect that the starting OF largely will be determined by whomever not named Cust or Buck is fully healthy at the end of ST.
I’d say he’s the second best OFer after Dejesus in games against RHPs.
Well, I’ll say this: The A’s do like to take the Royals’ best outfielders.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
That would make me unexcited about ’11.
Seriously: I’m fine with getting rid of Cust if we upgrade.
I’m not as down on Berkman as the rest of you. He’s probably only 50/50 to outperform Cust, but I think he has more offensive upside than any other plausible addition (except Manny if that’s plausible.) He’s probably one of the five best hitters of the last decade. While the team is average I think it’s always good to gamble on upside.
I don’t know why Manny wouldn’t be plausible (except from a personality standpoint, and that’s not so much plausibility as it is Beane/Forst’s judgment) — he’s gonna be cheap.
Not sure Manny would want to come here.
Not sure Manny’s gonna have much choice.
But, he could just walk away.
I’d be more interested in Manny. I think Berkman is done.
Manny could be done, too.
Which is why I want Cust unless there’s a clear upgrade.
I still like a Cust-Manny platoon.
So Cust plays when Manny doesn’t feel like it?
I agree. What we don’t know is if 2010 was the beginning of the slide or just a really down year. If he could get back to even close to prior production he’d be a great addition. And yes, he played in Minute Maid (and the NL), but he generally hit more doubles than homers so the Coli shouldn’t necessarily kill his production.
DeJesus H. Christ.
Headline:
But wait:
These men are MARTYRS TO THE TEA PARTY CAUSE!!!!!!!!!111
They should hire Andrew Shirvell as counsel
LL’s take.
I fucking love this:
Thanks, and go As.
Look at these faces — and Crisp and DeJesus in the OF?
BEEN IZ A SEGREGATIONIST!
Um…I thought they were like us?
Slumbeat
No mention of Matsui?
twutter:
Doesn’t sound good for Cust. Or Carter. Though it’s a little odd to “address power issues” by getting rid of your best power hitter, and blocking arguably your second best.
I think he means he’s going to hold a press conference and announce that the lack of power will continue next season.
The lack of power will continue until scoring improves!
asvd
Beane is rocking twitter. Hard.
Maybe “address power issues” = “abandoning experiment to turn Cust into Ichiro”
Wait — is that last bit referring to pitchers, or outfielders?
Today’s article says
Given his more general philosophy that everyone is available at the right price, that still doesn’t mean a whole lot.
I was mostly kidding — the whole we-have-4-or-5-starting-OFs.
Maybe he’s gonna deal Barton.
I’d be very curious to know if Tampa is interested.
I’m pretty sure they would be. But you’re gonna deal that piece?
Hell Bloom… you were a Snickers bar away from getting shipped to Halos Heaven.
[sighs]
For who? Upton?
Thanks, and go As.
Determine their interest first, plunder later.
Problem: I do not believe Friedman to be the type who gets plundered.
Thanks, and go As.
Challenge accepted!
(Just as soon as you hire me to replace Beane.)
On it.
Thanks, and go As.
More
LB, please tell her to cut out the Matsui talk.
From a let’s-put-as-many-butts-in-the-seats-we-don’t-care-if-they-are-Asian-heck-our-new-mayor’s-Asian standpoint, it makes a lot of sense.
Plus, aside from that annoying husband detail, she’s perfect.
What the Secret Service calls the rotation guarding the Secretary of State’s spouse.
Is he the last one to get it the rest of his life?
Job comes with built-in manservants for life. Sweet.
Ken Arneson sighting!
Seriously, though: weak sauce is weak. I’m a little gobsmacked that Neyer has hired those guys — they’re a day late and a dollar short, doing clipjobs on wire stories and wikipedia.
How is it those guys get a gig and grover isn’t being paid for what he does here and at **?
Seriously.
Whatever, ESPN shouldn’t be competing with SBN on SBN’s terms.
Has no one invited him here?
I think I was supposed to.
I don’t know him or I would.
I could try to get to know him…
I probably said something to piss off Neyer the one day he went to ** to scout for talent.
I’m gifted that way.
I appreciate the thought, though.
Well, since he came up with a giants fan…
Heck, poaching a ** mod would have been infinitely better than this.
Something big might be in the works.
Both Lew and Beane have said the payroll is going to go up in 2011. Right now the A’s have (approximately) $48.5 million committed to 24 players. And that figure is assuming Arbitration offers/raises to Kouzmanoff, Cust, Davis, Devine, Breslow, Braden, Sweeney and Ziegler, plus a $2 million base salary to Conor Jackson. I said 24 players because I’m not sure what Iwakuma will sign for, but if I assume $6 million (based on a 3 year contract with a total worth equal to the posting fee) we’re still sitting at a payroll in the mid-50’s.
Maybe the posting fee is being considered part of the payroll (pushing us into the low-70’s). But if it’s not, if it’s considered part of the scouting/amateur signing bonus pot o’ money than the A’s still have a lot of fiscal flexibility.
Of course, I’m also figuring that ownership doesn’t announce that payroll is going up unless we’re talking a major bump from the $60 million figure it’s sat at the past couple seasons… like the starting number being a 7 instead of 6.
I wonder about Weurth.
Acronym is off the table for LF related reasons. I wonder if he doesn’t swoop in on Weurth before Acronym signs.
That sounds like a good plan. Take Werth off the table and insure that at least one of TEX and LAA has a less than ideal offseason (while insuring yourself being a contender). Problem is, Werth isn’t likely to sign early. He’s a Boras client and reportedly looking for Holliday money.
I don’t mind the Holliday money ($17 million AAV) as I do the years (7).
Would you be opposed to something similar to what Bay got last year from the Mets (4/66) for Werth?
I’d do that.
Thanks, and go As.
Yup
I mean I’d probably beg and plead for the 4th year to be an option, but… I’d still probably cave and guarantee all 4.
Thanks, and go As.
I oppose any deal that doesn’t pay you and I a percentage of the monies.
I’d go $18.5 AAV for 4 years guaranteed and only a partial no-trade.
Help me you FKers!
Video and story
Say what you want about the Giants, but they sure threw Beane into a tizzy of action.
I like the DeJesus move.
I also like In n Out burgers, so my judgment may be suspect.
They’re good, but they’re no 5 guys.
HA! 5 Guys is overrated and WAY too expensive.
Their fries now….
Not overrated at all, their burgers are cubes of deliciousness.
And the cajun fries are awesome.
I disagree with this.
The cube shape? The deliciousness? or the Cajun Fries?
deliciousness. it just wasn’t all that. Plus, with fries and drink, it was about $12-15!
It’s a bit more expensive out here then. I’ve only ever been in the DC area, and it was more like $15-20 for 2 burgers, 2 drinks, and 1 fry.
Damn, you eat a lot.
A SINGLE FRY?!?
nm lied, he friesed
Tater tots, Dude.
Still nowhere near Joe’s Cable Car, for price or quality.
Which is still nowhere near Epic’s BBB deal on the same terms.
Dammit, I haven’t eaten lunch yet! And all I have in my work fridge is radishes and fenugreek sprouts.
I’m telling you, best hidden secret in the city. It’s not on the menu and no one there knows to order it. The burger alone is $20 on the normal menu.
The only thing is you have to eat upstairs at the bar, but they have sweet leather chairs if you go at non-peak times.
omfg.
Thanks, and go As.
Next Friday: lunch? All of us?
I just so happen to be not working next Friday.
Thanks, and go As.
I do half-days Fridays, taking JP to SoccerTots at “Telegraph Field” at Pier 37, so I’m just about right there anyway, done at 11. JP doesn’t care for burgers or beer, but he’ll eat that brownie.
Wish I could, but it works best for smaller groups anyway up there.
5 Guys is great if for no other reason than to hear friends talk about how they “have to have 5 guys tonight”…
I agree with this.
There is nothing wrong with In n Out burgers.
I am moving exclusively for proximity to innout.
Wouldn’t moving also get you further away from your mother-in-law?
You are sage.
Thanks, and go As.
TWHS.
I’ve set the DVR to record the Glenn Burke special, opened a bottle of Cabernet and am going to sit back and listen to an archived Dave Niehaus Mariners broadcast via MLB.com tonight.
Rajai CF, Barton 1B, Suzuki C, Kz 3B, Fox DH, Rosales 2B, Gross RF, Patterson LF, Pennington SS / Gio.
That Fox is gonna be a star!
If we sign Crawford, would that give us the best defense in…history?
Since the dawn of time…
Can DDJ play right field?
Thanks, and go As.
Been a while since I’ve seen a scouting report on DeJesus but Fangraphs isn’t thrilled with his arm in RF in limited exposure.
Assuming that would be the same for Acronym, then.
JW would be acceptable I guess, if it was 4 years or less. Which is probably not going to be the case.
Thanks, and go As.
Quality snark:
He’ll get the NL Cy Young to make up for it.
If anyone is interested in this (featuring mrs ptbnl) let me know and I’ll give you the location:
Sadly I’ll be stopping over in London that night, en route back from Bologna, but it’s always been a great event.
carp chili?
The 1st year’s winner was indeed a fish chili, but in this case the Koi Pond is a warehouse whose inhabitants are part of Camp Carp from the playa.
Oh for FK’s sake, Lew.
This puts him firmly in the binary territory of idiot-or-lying.
jesus fucking christ. it gets worse:
Unsatisfied with his natural role as Clarence the Angel, Lew now sees himself as Moses fleeing the Pharoah.
Well, I’d certainly buy Al Davis as Pharaoh.
Pharoah was not sea-monster-y enough.
Hmmmm …
But where do you play him?
On the DL if he came to Oakland.
Fair point.
Trade Cliffy Sexington (or just warehouse him in Sacto). Given the current state of shortstopping, he’d bring something (not much, but something).
Should bring a lot more than that. He was amongst the best SS in the AL last year and he’s young/cheap.
ERRURZ!!!1!
Just how I like my women.
you’re getting older.
Which is why grover doesn’t like me.
No, he doesn’t like you because you’re terrible at oral.
He refuses to practice…
There’s just no excuse for that.
Thanks, and go As.
And check your e-mail when you can, please.
Check yours.
Just checked.
Nada.
Thanks, and go As.
I got water on three sides and mountains on the other — nothing can get through.
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Thanks, and go As.
I think Beltran is a more realistic target…
No one tell Lew about this, as it would make his already specious claims of Oakland site ignorance that much more ridiculous. And far be it from me to disappoint those in love with the “Oakland’s-doing-nothing” narrative. But (shhhhhhhh) it appears that Oakland’s doing something–Dec. 1 Planning Commission, Item 5:
They should try to lure the Giants there
So what’s your take now that Quan’s been declared winner?
Kewl. How soon can it be done?
Thanks, and go As.
Opening day 2015. If San Jose gets the nod, they’re possibly two years ahead, but more likely one year, 2014.
At this point, I’m ready to flip a fucking coin.
No offense. I know you’ve put a lot into it, and are way more informed about it than I.
Thanks, and go As.
Do you know when that agenda came out?
Because if the agenda came out after Lew did his interview with Blez then you can’t use the Dec. 1 agenda to blast him for his comments in the interview. If the agenda came out before the two talked then there’s cause to use it as ammo.
Oakland has been publicly pushing that site as a potential stadium location for something like a year (and privately for even longer).
OK, I believe you. But when did it get on the agenda and when was the agenda published. I have been pushing to sleep with Salma Hayek for years but have never produced an agenda to accomplish my goal.
Lew Wolff blames mrs grover for her nimbyism.
I don’t think grover particularly cares whether he sleeps with Salma in his wife’s back yard.
YDNSWIDT
I did. I just went a different direction.
No, you got the gist, but not the particulars right.
A different meaning for the tail end of that acronym?
righto
Then I did miss it.
I believe you need to think of ‘backyard’ in the sense of a woman’s anatomy.
Thanks, and go As.
Yeah. That was part of my response too.
Lew has known about this site for nearly two years. The publishing of an agenda for a scoping session is the sort of thing which only happens much prep work has been done less publicly.
There’s a bigger point, though: Lew is almost irrelevant. MLB is calling the shots on the ballpark for the A’s now (another lie Lew told in his Blez interview was that he doesn’t know what the MLB Committee is up to). MLB, as repped by Bob DuPuy and his Committee, will determine (soon) whether Oakland or San Jose gets an exclusive shot at making a ballpark happen. If it’s Oakland, Lew will either be bought out or become a silent partner, to be replaced with a different public face of ownership, and Fisher will either get on board or sell. My guess is Fisher gets on board, because once a ballpark deal is inked the value of the franchise will rise substantially.
MLB matters a lot. Fisher matters some. Lew is Ari Fleischer with a 10% equity stake.
Lew’s had 10 years to get one job done. He hasn’t.
I have no doubt that he knows about the site in general. I was asking about the Dec. 1 agenda in specific.
My problem is with the specific use of the Dec. 1 meeting to bash on Lew’s comments in the interview with Tyler. If it’s reasonable to assume that Lew knew about the agenda before he said his piece to Blez than it’s fair game to call bullshit. But if he didn’t know about the agenda, then calling him a liar because of actions made known after the interview is uncalled for. All I’m saying is if he honestly didn’t know about the Dec. 1 agenda at the time of the interview then what he told Blez wasn’t a lie when he said it.
Damn, you sure can grab a loose end and tug relentlessly. It’s endearing. But if you insist on tangential pedantry, I didn’t call Lew a liar (about this)…the other day I said that it might be literally true in the most narrow sense that Lew never took a phone call from someone in Oakland about the Victory Court site. And today I wrote, humorously (I thought), that no one should tell Lew about this meeting because it would make his no knowledge claims more preposterous than they already are.
In fact, Lew has been well aware of Victory Court for close to two years. I know that specifically. And his claims to the contrary, which he’s said many times in many places (“We don’t know of any other site in Oakland. We exhausted every site option. If someone has another site plan we’ll sit down with them tomorrow”) are literally untrue.
Sorry, not trying to drive you nuts.
Senior Seminar involved historical fallacies. That little chestnut, when applied to my professor’s published work, led to me refuting one of the central tenants of his thesis and earned me an A for the class.
Some stuff just sticks with you.
Forgive me if this has already been asked many times but I’m genuinely curious,…how exactly would funding for a Victory Court stadium work?
I’m guessing that either way, the A’s will have to be recipients of a loan from the MLB general fund — much larger in the case of Oakland. I have unfounded speculation that Crywolffisher’s financing scheme is nowhere near as sound as Lew likes to imply-by-omission, but there’s no question that he’s got a bigger corporate-underwriting bounty via SJ than Oakland.
And I’m sticking with my contraction theory — I think ultimately it may cost MLB less to buy out Oakland and Tampa than to underwrite their stadia and buy out Neukom.
That last I guess should more precisely be buy off Neukom.
This makes me depressed.
Well, you can find consolation in the fact that i’m talking out my ass.
It shouldn’t. I actually take great encouragement from my belief that MLB has decided it’s going to get this done once and for all, whether in SJ or Oakland. It removes the weak link of A’s ownership from a position of being able to screw it up.
The exact same way one in San Jose would, which is to say, we don’t know. Seriously. Ever since the housing-driven funding mechanisms crashed, neither Lew nor anyone else has said anything specific about the funding vehicles for actual park construction, regardless of what city it’d be in.
Working assumptions (again regardless of city): local city’s redevelopment agency assembles the land (may require eminent domain) and gives/long-term free-leases it to the team. City pays for all required infrastructure improvements (roads, parking, freeway access, mitigations required by EIR). City handles zoning/land use issues, which may also include entitling use of some land for money-making purposes for the team’s benefit (i.e. retail, office, hotel, residential adjacent to the ballpark). That last part could be worth big bucks to the team, in effect defraying some of its stadium building costs, for which the team is otherwise fully on the hook. Broad consensus is that no sports team in California will ever again get a city/county/JPA to directly pay for actual venue construction.
I agree with monkeyball that the secret plan (have not heard a whiff of it publicly) is for lion’s share of park financing to be backed by MLB, to be repaid by team on friendly extended loan terms. MLB may also expect the lucky chosen city to help indirectly shoulder some slice of these costs, through tax increment financing or other means. But MLB ain’t saying shit, so it’s all guesswork at this point.
What is certain is that these funding issues are functionally identical in Oakland or San Jose. It drives me crazy that so many ballpark pundits act as though the money’s easily managed in the South Bay while portraying it as a Sisyphian boulder in Oakland.
Just wanted to thank you for all the insight. Been a Hell of a lot easier to hear you without all the background noise at **.
My pleasure.
Indeed.
Thirded. I wish I could call you in like an air strike, Jim.
I’m going to take this opportunity to start the initial notes on a full-fledged rant (of which I think you’ll approve): Lew is big on attacking his opponents as reality-challenged obstructers/dreamers who aren’t willing to address the hard facts. But isn’t his failure to foresee/navigate/win over land sellers, municipalities, nimbys, the Giants, and regulators … exactly the same problem?
His comment in the Blezterview that “I’ve lived my entire life developing properties in cities, never blaming others for what I can’t get done” almost made me fall out of my chair.
If Oakland had a cure for cancer, Lew wouldn’t be interested.
Thanks for the response. What of the corporate base in San Jose that so many cite as the main difference between SJ and Oakland? How do they figure into the funding? If, as you say, there seems to be no real difference in difficulty in procuring funding between Oakland and SJ, then why is Wolff so intent on SJ while seemingly refusing to offer even a shred of consideration to the Oakland plan?
Corporate support means luxury box and other ticket sales, in-stadium adverts and licensing deals, and radio/TV broadcast ads. Those can add up to quite a bit of year-to-year revenue, and Wolff and many others believe those prospects are brighter in the South Bay than Oakland. The South Bay case says, all other things being equal (same new park, same attendance figures, etc.) the potential to make more money every year, and thereby increase the total value of the franchise, is greater if you’re sitting in the Cisco Cection in San Jose than in the Clorox Bleachers in Oakland. So to speak.
But that has very little to do with who pays for a new ballpark. Some factor park naming rights fees into the park construction calculus, so there’s maybe a bit of an effect there*, but the quest for corporate support is really about the ongoing revenue stream, not about the investment capital.
*Naming rights are tough to gauge; nationally they’ve plunged in recent years, and they don’t last forever (e.g. Candlestick 3Com Monster Candlestick Park), so I see them as more revenue stream than start up cash.
That the South Bay will command better corporate support than Oakland is taken as an article of faith by many. It may be true…I certainly won’t argue the reverse…but it would also be short-sighted to assume that all those SilliValley Cos. will refuse to engage as business partners in a new Oakland ballpark, just because it’s in Oakland. Good business is good business.
Interesting. From a comment jeffro made in one of those threads on AN, I was under the impression that corporate backing played a pretty big role in stadium funds, especially one that’s supposedly gonna be built through private funding. He used the funding for Phone Booth as an example, which supposedly had roughly 50% of the stadium funding coming from naming rights, seat presales…basically, corporate investment?
Also, is it true that Cisco is committed to ~130 million dollars in naming rights for a ballpark in SJ, but not in Oakland? If so, does this affect whether or not similar corporate giants in the BA (specifically the ones I’m assuming the A’s want to target in Silicon Valley) would be interested in being business partners for a new ballpark in Oakland?
Cisco’s magic $130M was part of a land sale deal for a Fremont park, which included a naming rights component. But it also included in-stadium licensing, and a land option sale. While Cisco has said it would still pay to name a new SJ park, they ain’t paying $130M for that. And Cisco may well want a piece of the new Oakland park…remember all the neat in-seat e-bells and e-whistles Lew and Cisco were talking about in Fremont…scanners read your cell phone and order you a beer and offer to sell you a seat upgrade (or call in the storm troops to oust you from your illegit seat) while they tweet personalized takes from Rob Neyer to you with each new batter? There’s still room for such Cisco-branded stuff at Victory Court.
The New Meadowlands Giants/Jets stadium is instructive…they still haven’t sold naming rights, because no one will pay the $20M per year they want. And that stadium is a big fucking deal; NFL names are worth much more than MLB ones (because NFL TV is king), and that one’s for twice the # of games/teams/broadcast references. And they can’t get $20M. So no, Cisco’s not paying $130M to name a new park anywhere, and no, that wouldn’t be a lump sum up front that would help with stadium construction. It would be annual revenue. As would seat pre-sales, with the exception of any Personal Seat License thing they try, which is largely on the backs of individual fans, and may not go over real well.
Pac Bell’s private financing was mostly private from the Giants ballclub/owners. That’s why they pay $20M/year in stadium debt service. It is (deliberately) misleading to characterize their private financing as a triumph of external corporate investment, certainly to that extent.
Honest question, no snark intended.
Cisco’s corporate HQ is in San Jose. What would make them want to spends tons of money on an Oakland ballpark?
Thanks, and go As.
Well, I don’t know that Cisco will spend in Oakland. They might not, or they might spend less. But Cisco is selling to the world, not just to Santa Clara County. Being able to show their neat tech gizmos providing seamless connectivity in a crowded ballpark, with their brand caught in nearly every camera shot, would presumably have a lot of value to them regardless of the park’s address.
Hell, their logo is a stylized version of the Golden Gate Bridge. Their home is the Bay Area, not just the 95134 zip code. If it makes business sense for them to spend on ballpark, my guess is that that value doesn’t vanish completely because it’s in Oakland.
Makes sense I suppose. They were ready to drop tons of cash on Fremont, right?
Thanks, and go As.
Honest question, no snark intended.
The A’s fanbase is in Oakland and immediate environs. What would make them want to spends tons of money to go to a San Jose ballpark?
The already don’t want to spend tons of money to go to an Oakland ballpark.
I think the answer is “new fans”
This, actually, is the biggest mistake Crywolffisher has made, even beyond fumbling the entire stadium situation. They’ve put themselves in a situation where they HAVE to poach Giants fans to survive.
Given this year’s WS result, I think the new-stadium effect and new-stadium honeymoon period have been cut by at least 1/3.
And to your first point: The already don’t want to spend very little money to go to a shitty Oakland ballpark which they’re constantly reminded is shitty.
I dunno. Why aren’t they spending it in Oakland now?
Thanks, and go As.
So, you’re presuming that if Selugworth’s BRC picks Oakland, they’ll simply truck the Coliseum over to Victory Court?
I have no idea and I don’t pretend to have any idea about Victory Court.
Thanks, and go As.
Also: The team hasn’t been over .500 since ’06. Team record, while not the only factor, has generally been the most important factor driving attendance.
Also: Lew sez: the Coliseum suxxorz! Again and again and again and again.
Also: Crowley is even more inept at his job than Wolff is at his.
Also: the Coliseum, especially for a casual fan, does indeed suck.
Devil’s Advocate:
Non serious fans won’t even know who that is.
trudat
And, of course, I’d rather not have a giant coke bottle in the OF.
What? We’re gonna do coke in the outfield? Well, I’ll travail those shitty seats for coke…
LB: Rangers Fan.
Thanks, and go As.
Maybe not, but if Oakland goes ahead with its plan to license large growing operations, maybe we can expect some major sponsorship and the team may play its future games in Potco Park. Tickets in the mandatory smoking sections would go for a premium.
Would tickets in the premium smoking sections be mandatory?
GP – probably not, as the currently hyperactive ticket checkers would forget to bother fsuers.
So lemme ask a question that I would certainly like the answer for/to.
On **, the two most knowledgeable on the stadium issue seem to be Jeffro and vertig0. It also seems that both strongly believe that the San Jose stadium is the only path. Why is that?
verig0/Marine Layer used to be an honest broker. I’m not sure why/when/how his rational advocacy turned weirdly/blindly partisan, but it’s really hard to take anything he says seriously anymore.
Jeffro works for v0/ML (at least, he’s a sub-blogger at newballpark), so that explains his allegiance.
I don’t think vertig0 feels San Jose is the only path, just that it’s the most doable and/or more desirable. I assume this is a conclusion he reached for some of these reasons: SJ’s site assembly is further along, Oakland gov’t has dicked around for many years, and SJ may promise better long-term revenue. Jeffro, for all his “I’d love a new park anywhere” lip service, seems to trash anything Oakland does while consistently refusing to apply the same skeptical standard to other plans.
I honestly think that both of them over the last 18 months or so have become so invested in the success of the SJ effort that they react to any Oakland efforts as though they’re threats. A charitable view is that such is a natural and probably not conscious reaction, because they want SJ to succeed so much. Which is fine…just drop the bullshit claims of non-partisanship when they so clearly no longer fit.
Thank you for both these possible explanations, you guys. I know they’re both bright, but I also know that they seem to be using that brightness to shout anyone down at **. I don’t think they’re evil, so I think fsu’s explanation makes a lot of sense. It’s strange that the tone of discourse here is so very oddly different here than there.
Less mediocrity to work around over here.
Don’t sell yourself short, Judge: you’re a tremendous slouch.
Mediocrity is generous.
Plus, if I don’t like someone… I ban ’em.
I’m trying as hard as I can!
Thanks, and go As.
Which is why you fail.
If I set low expectations, it’s easier to meet them.
Thanks, and go As.
Trying hard to achieve medirocrity sounds oxymoronic.
That’s the point, g.
Thanks, and go As.
Thanks for taking the time FSU. I’m bookmarking this thread.
iFSU…
To that last point, Lew (and his supporters) are fond of saying that the short/long im/material distance from Oakland to San Jose won’t deter true fans* — why then would it deter corporate sponsors?
*Yet now that distance is necessary to separate from the Giants and their 8-miles-as-the-vulture-flies-from-the-Coliseum ballpark?
Because corporations are looking to impress employees/clients who don’t always care that much about baseball, but like to say they caught a game in great seats.
BtB says it’s about a fair trade, actually.
Both sides’ initial reaction of “What? Huh. Oh, I guess.” made me think the same thing.
Thanks, and go As.
/ballpark site dispute
Was listening to 960 and one of the guys on (Roxie?) said the one clear winner is David De Jesus.
I don’t think that’s right.
His numbers will go down.
If it’s anyone it’s Mazzaro who will certainly start as long as he’s healthy. But then, his ERA will go up.
His numbers may go down, but he gets to wear white shoes!
Black cleats are for losers!
I read that somewhere.
You’ve been in my condo?!?
maybe.
[slides down behind credenza]
…which is (or should be) the dream of every Major League player.