I know I said there were no rules, but you’re one goat joke away from banning.
GOT Spoiler Zone — Season 7 Edition
This story seems pretty streamlined for the finishing kick now. It’s a little jarring how much the plots seem to be coming together.
Loved that dialogue-free tour of Dragonstone. The should have had Dany pull a Jed Bartlet at the end: “What’s next?”
I find it a little sad — but also totally understandable — that they are wrapping it up so abruptly. I like the way that the books sprawl out and out, but who knows if they will ever finish.
Definitely a little sad. But I won’t be mad at not spending any more time across the narrow sea.
I think Jon was probably wise to bury the hatchet with the Karstarks and Umbers. But somehow that shit is going to blow up in his face.
He and Sansa need to get their act together.
Co-regents would be a smart way to go.
I liked when the Hound made fun of Thoros’ hipster man bun.
I know I don’t need to mention it but Ed fucking Sheeran. What the fuck was that.
They need to give Lyanna Mormont a bunch more screen time.
On the other hand, I find it annoying that Cersei is left as the villain. I find her to be so damn boring. She has been saying a variation on the same three lines of dialog for about 4 seasons now.
Don’t worry. She’s toast by season end. That’s my guess anyway; the season ending with Dany on the Iron throne leaving the last season dedicated to the White Walker battle.
I don’t see how she can hold onto anything with Dany, dragons*, the Tyrell armies, the North, the Vale, and Dorne all lined up against her. Her most likely role is serving as a distraction from the real fight against the walkers.
*Book spoiler: EDIT – Deleted because I can’t figure out how to do spoiler text properly
To start the spoiler: span class = “Spoiler” To close: /span
Well, Dorne is out. The North isn’t likely to join just because it has the White Walker threat. That leaves the Vale and her own army. And she doesn’t want to use her army. Plenty to see, especially with Bran still around somewhere telling us what happened in the past. And especially with Casterly Rock still in play. I read recently a theory that Bran could be the Walker King. If so, that would be kind of interesting to explore and would take some time to set up this season for it to pay off next season.
Aren’t the knight of the Vale already up at Winterfell?
I meant the Tyrell army.
Well the vanguard of the Tyrell army is led by Randyll Tarly, and we’ll see which side he decides to fight for.
Well, I was tired of the Sand Snakes, anyway.
Having Arya head to Winterfell just as Jon leaves is too cruel. Maybe she’ll assassinate Littlefinger to make up for it.
But it offers multiple reunions. Or, just as likely, a reunion with Sanza and then Aria bolting before Jon returns.
Eh, she hates Sansa. Jon is the one who really understood Arya.
I know! That made me really sad. Plus I know why Nymeria wouldn’t join her, but that bummed me out too.
And where the ever loving FK is Ghost??
Also, don’t those ships have lookouts?
That was the glaring thing for me … in all that war-planning no-one took the other Iron Fleet into account?
Why didn’t Hot Pie tell Arya that Sansa was at Winterfell with Jon too?
I’d imagine travelers passing through wouldn’t have much care for gossip that she was there and more about the bastard son was the King of the North. The War of the Two Queens aside, it’s still very much a predominately patriarchal society. Of course, now that Sansa is in command with Jon away, that’s likely to be shared.
Sansa the king-slayer escaping the Boltons and then returning to Winterfell at the head of the Knights of the Vale just in time to turn the tide of the Battle of the Bastards and save her brother is a hell of a story, even for a woman …
If that’s how it’s recounted.
While their end was deliciously evil, it did not make the slow boring Dorne plot line worth it. Now let us never speak of Dorne again.
am I the only one thinking that maybe they intentionally made it hard to tell which glass Jamie put the poison into?
Thanks, and go As.
No, seemed like it was remarkably straightforward.
I’m gonna have to watch the scene again. Also why didn’t Jaime drink his? Becuase that was the poisoned glass?
hmmm. i’ve seen this movie.
is the scene called A BATTLE OF TWITS??
Might have been two glasses, but she set them out. He was there for the job at hand, not to share one last drink. But I wouldn’t have done it either. Someone backed into that corner, you don’t risk it.
What I thought during that scene was that maybe Lady Olenna had pre-poisoned the wine, hoping to kill herself and get Jaime in the process.
Loved the scene with Tyrian and Jon Snow: “I came out to brood, but you look so much better at it…
Tyrian is FKing awesome.
And best when he’s in his element like now, schmoozing and dealing in the Game, in addition to the wisecracks. One recap I resd described it as talking TO other characters now, not just at them.
If only he wasn’t fucking up so bad on the whole military strategizing thing.
So my fearless prediction (that will now be 100% wrong): Since Jon intentionally made a point of hiding his resurrection and Dany’s curiosity piqued by it, I’m going to guess that she finds out about it on her own. Fearing that he’s the Prince/Princess that was promised, she sends one of the dragons (Rhaegar) to roast him to a crisp. He emerges unscathed for the Targaryen reveal. Less likely, but possible, Sam finds some document Ned left behind to reveal his ancestry, possibly hidden in the grunt work he was to re-write in the aging scroll pile.
Does Bran not know about it? He said he sees everything that has ever happened.
I’m wondering about this. Does he mean he actually knows everything that ever happened, or that he has the power should he choose to drop in on a historical moment and learn by watching it, the way Alec Guiness did.
He’s there to confirm the actual linage rather reveal that he is one.
Wasn’t Jon’s heritage revealed to viewers through a Bran vision? Bran must know about it, unless he doesn’t understand the significance of what he saw… which seems unlikely.
I thought he said he still only sees snippets (which is, of course, convenient for the plot).
I like the reveal-by-dragon-immunity theory, could definitely see that. The close dragon fly-by over Jon on the walk into Dragonstone could be seen as foreshadowing such a turn. I’d also add the “Tyrion is also a Targaryen” theory there…maybe even he and Jon surviving the dragons at the same time…then they plus Dany become the three dragonriders who were foretold.
I could see Tyrion be caught up in that trying to stop it.
FK the Tarlys by the way. Except for Sam — he’s cool. But Randyll and the rest can eat a bag of Dickons.
Seriously, screw those guys.
Sam still has Heartsbane on him, right?
I think he must. I’m super glad he left-I hope he can reunite with Jon.
Something about what you said or how you said it made me realize that not only is he likely headed to Winterfell, but that he’s likely to come across Bran. Bran being the weirdo he is will likely connect the dots for Sam between what Gilly pointed out to him and Jon’s parentage. Then again, he likely did leave the fucking book and will have to run back to get it.
Was he just grabbing scrolls at random from the secret room? I hope not.
Not clear how he couldn’t have been. I don’t know how you index random rolled-up scrolls.
scrolls had a strip of papyrus tied to the stem or around the scroll itself.
Well, wasn’t the scroll/book/whatever Gilly was reading from the list of “we need you to copy all these” junk pile and not from whatever it was that Sam was stealing? So while who knows what and how he selected from those, he probably had no reason to pull from the pile he was re-scribing, which had Rhaegar’s marriage info.
I thought Gilly was just reading some random book out of boredom/curiosity.
The stuff he grabbed was from the special maesters-only section of the library, to which he had previously been denied entry.
I think the only scrolls she had access to were the one’s he had been assigned to copy. I could have sworn he had been assigned to replicate a specific Maester’s scrolls and that was the Maester they were talking about with the steps, bowel movements, etc. so I was assuming that she pulled from that pile. But I could be wrong. They weren’t supposed to be special, that’s for sure.
Wasn’t she reading from a bound book, not a scroll?
Not sure. Could have been a bound version of a transcription. Or it could have been just about anything.
Looks like a book to me, which Sam then takes from Gilly and gives to little Sam to play with.
ah. that solves it. he couldn’t have taken it. a book woulda been chained directly to the shelf.
I am too, mainly because he rightfully got fed up with the Citadel’s fiddling-while-Rome-burns mentality. Of course it’s also hilarious that Sam, having been giving the biggest clue in the story (Jon being Rhaegar’s true-born son, and therefore rightful king of the Seven Kingdoms and all that), blusters right over it. I’m hoping for the biggest ‘wait, WHAT’ moment in a coming episode, but since there are only two left this season (dammit!), it may not come ’til next year.
It’s always seemed like the story has been headed toward Jamie fully turning on Cersei to stop her from whatever, but with his latest actions and talk I don’t know if I can buy it any more. His speech to the Queen of Thorns about how no one will begrudge what Cersei did once all of her enemies are dead and peace reigns for eternity is some Nazi justification shit.
At least the trains run on time.
I’d suspect that if that were what the book was intending, his dialog would be markedly different. But to that point, finding out that *she* was behind his son’s death could be a part of it. One of two ways. Either it makes him realize that he *really* misjudges people and makes him think long and hard about how he’s judged Cersei (though that seems really doubtful at this point). Or, now knowing that Tyrion didn’t do it, he now feels justified in saving him. But Cersei doesn’t care and still forces him to choose between killing Tyrion and his loyalty to his brother. And the result is an unwillingness to kill Tyrion. So she tries to do it herself and he steps in and ends her to protect him brother once more. He does seem to care more about him and his survival over she and her feelings.
That was exciting.
About time too.
I understand not unleashing dragons on Kings Landing, but the Lannister army and fleet are fair game. No need to lose Dothraki lives (or Dorne, the Iron Islands, or the Tyrells for that matter).
The starting point should have been to destroy their forces – everything else then falls into place. And as Robert Baratheon noted, you can’t rule and just hide in your castles.
Arya ends up sticking the Valyrian steel dagger into Littlefinger: yes or no?
About as likely as Tyrion saving Jaime in the next episode.
I wish. Although, there would be something a little more poetic if Sansa did it.
Dagger didn’t do it.
Really? She showed it to him right before so I assumed.
The Arya v Brienne duel was one of my favorite scenes ever!
It was amazing. The look of delight they both had at the end was priceless.
I agree with that, except that it suffers from a common problem in late-stage fantasy series. Arya’s supposed to be the baddest ass super killer in Westeros, but somehow she can only draw Brienne (who is a good knight, but certainly doesn’t have 2-handed Jaime’s reputation). Why Arya couldn’t just dodge the first swing and put a knife at Brienne’s neck is thoroughly unexplained.
But she did exactly that!
No she didn’t. They battled for some time, both landing blows, and then both got into position to kill the other.
Which made for great TV (and a fun scene), but bears no resemblance to Arya’s prior unstoppability.
Do we know that Arya is unstoppable in a straight up fight, as opposed to when she can operate in stealth? I honestly can’t remember.
Even if she’s just very good but still human in combat, she’s going toe to toe with one of the greatest fighters in the realm right there (Brienne and Jon seem like the best living two-handed fighters we know of.).
The bigger issue is how did she let herself be made by Littlefinger like that. That’s where she’s slipping.
Interesting question, I certainly took from the blindfolded fight scene against other best-in-the-world assassins that she’s got game not allowed for ordinary mortals.
I’m also not sure Brienne is actually established to have that kind of reputation/skill, though I may be forgetting (or she may not have it purely due to sexism).
Brienne did beat the Hound and the Hound is well recognized as pretty darn good if not Jaime/Ned Stark level.
I had this memory of her holding her own against pre-dismemberment Jamie, but then he had his hands chained together didn’t he.
I thought from the very beginning that Arya was just toying with her. Could she have ended it quickly, sure. But she wanted to see Brienne’s best. Only way to do that is for her to work up to it. Brienne didn’t take the challenge seriously at the beginning, so the quick stab would have been meaningless.
If it read that way to you I may just have missed it. That would be more in line with my understanding of their respective abilities.
5 seconds into the fight Needle is lethally poised at Brienne’s throat.
Clearly I need to rewatch the scene, I’d forgotten that. … … … Oh, right.
I would totally watch the rest of the rest of the season with Leslie Jones.
That was pretty cool
Aw, Drogon let Jon pet him all snuggly-like.
And per Gilly, not that Sam noticed, Jon may in fact be a legitimate Targaryen, which once known will complicate even further Dany’s Fuck/Marry/Kill choice.
I’m annoyed at Sam for that one. He’s smart of to recognize the significance of someone named Rhaegar getting an annulment in secret. He may not be able to put two and two together quite yet, but he should have at least recognized that it wasn’t meaningless.
He was in a pissy mood and she mispronounced it.
Yeah and Sam doesn’t have any particular reason to be curious about Jon’s lineage
I kind of feel like he’s been around Gilly long enough to know how poor she is at pronouncing what she reads and he’s smart enough to be able to connect that dot from what she pronounced to Rhaegar.
It’s less about Jon’s lineage (there’s no way at this point that anyone should connect the two). But had he connected the name to Rhaegar, who was next in line to throne, to an as of yet completely unknown annulment, that’s kind of a big deal. And it could be useful to Jon in terms of trying to gather allies for the coming war. More to the war than how-to fight white walkers.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a fault of the story or character. At all. It’s not even really a character flaw. It’s more an annoyance, fist shaking thing for me. How dare you ignore her. She’s spouting off knowledge and your personal rage is getting in the way. Hopefully she was fascinated enough in the book she read to have taken it with them when he bolted.
If nothing else it would be amazing gossip. But he was so focused on the walker threat and how mad he was at the shit-counting archmaesters that he wasn’t hearing it.
I hope Gilly took the book and I hope she’s the one who makes the connection down the road.
It would be amazing poetic justice of the “Dude not listening to the woman” sort if she made the connection for him. Then called him a dumbass. I do kind of feel like Gilly would feel enough of a possessiveness towards finishing that book that she’d take it with her. Sort of Sam being like “Damn. The book is back there. We may never find it now.” With her responding “I… have the book.”
Well they sure shorthanded it into either he was listening or read it later, robbing Gilly of her trimuph!
At the very least he should have pointed out that Gilly saw it in the book. It wouldn’t have taken much to properly credit her there.
(counterpoint: if he’d already copied the text, thus already had it in his mind when she said it, everything else makes sense–except the director’s choice).
That was my reading.
Sure. Take the Man’s side.
I kinda love that the biggest bombshell in the entire series was just dropped all nonchalant and then basically ignored.
Not after the Lannisters normalize sibling-love…
I though Jorah Mormont might mention to Jon Snow that he’d been cured by brother Samuel of the Night’s Watch.
The speed at which things happen now is getting a bit ridiculous … the day trip to Kings Landing, Old Town to Dragonstone overnight, and a quick jaunt to East Watch by Sea.
The convergences are also a bit stretched – it’s like an all-star season. Though the real reason to leave Sir Davos at the wall was clearly for the Seven Samuri shot of the heroes heading into the wild.
Yeah, they’re backed into a corner of both not having books to work off of and stretching their financials to keep things running. The end result is they’re rushing through this thing way too quickly.
I’m very much with you on this. Really feels like they are just trying to wrap everything up in the most expedient and lazy way.
But I’m still looking forward to the next episode. GoT is best when things are going wrong for the heroes, and this plan has no chance of success (as discussed below).
Man, if it does succeed, the show will have gone off the rails. Because nothing works, especially the first time, unless by complete accident. And Martin is good about not giving easy victories so it would definitely be off. Makes me more certain Jorah dies.
Go north, capture a wight, bring it to KL, talk Cersei into sending troops north to help…..wtf kind of plan is that????
A ridiculous one. And one that won’t work. My hope is it’ll fail miserably from the start. She loses Jorah again. Gets pissed at the distraction/betrayal, and fries Jon. After all, if he doesn’t come back with a wight and Jorah doesn’t come back (her only representative), then she has absolutely no reason to trust Jon that it was a failed mission rather than him betraying her.
Not just a ridiculous one, but a ridiculous one that everyone immediately agreed to. Like no-one could think of a counter-argument? No discussion on how you even capture and transport a wight? Martin may be an absurdly slow author, but at least that means his version has some thought put into it.
I also find it odd that she’d trust Jon, without having taken the knee, and without having seen any proof of her own, to embark on this thing. That makes very little sense to me. Completely out of character.
Khaleesi has the hots for Jon, and her dragon loves him. She’s not thinking straight.
I do think Jon is getting some points for honesty. I don’t think she trusts people who blow smoke up her ass, and he’s definitely not doing that. He’s pretty much said here’s what I care about, here’s what I’m willing to do, take it or leave it.
Gendry is pretty handy with that warhammer, but certainly his highest and best use at the moment would be forging weapons from dragonglass.
Also he can’t die before having a Skins reunion with Gilly.
Book spoiler: Since Robert was unstoppable with his warhammer, it’s good to see Gendry is a chip off the old block.
I’d like to see Jon or Danaerys legitimize Gendry and make him lord of Storms End.
Aren’t the Wildlings holding Storms Ends? Unless they fully retake the North of the Wall, I don’t see anyone supplanting them.
You’re thinking of Eastwatch-by-the-Sea maybe? Storms End is the Baratheon castle in the east, last held by Renly.
Yup. You’re right.
So, two episodes left this season. And the penultimate one is traditionally where Benioff/Weiss have shocked us the most.
So: Who’s going to die this season? Place your bets among these 18 important characters:
Jon Sansa Arya Bran Brienne Littlefinger Cersei Jamie Bron Tyrion Daenerys Varys Missandei Grey Worm Davos The Hound Theon Yara
My picks for dead by end of season 7: Littlefinger Jamie Bron Grey Worm and Varys. It’s gonna be rough.
Jorah is toast. I suspect Cersei. Hound has lost his usefulness, but will die a “hero.” I think that’s it. I also suspect Jon’s Targaryenness will be revealed, probably as a cliff hanger for the finale, though not his parentage.
I thought about picking Cersei, since she’s so isolated (and basically forecast her own death last week). But I think the producers like Lena Headey’s work so much they’ll keep her around. I could, though, see a scenario where she’s the last Lannister alive by season’s end.
I could see a scenario where she goes early in the next season. But I’m figuring that the final season will predominately focus on the White Walker war, so clearing her story line up happens sooner than later. Probably with Dany taking the throne still not believing in the threat.
Brienne, Littlefinger, Cersei, Bronn, The Hound, Yara all could die. I think The Hound becomes the wight that is brought back to King’s Landing. They’ve had too much fan service to ignore Cleganebowl, and zombie Cleganebowl would be even better.
Brienne’s arc is finished. Littlefinger will be killed by Arya soon to much rejoicing. Cersei needs to be taken care of before the final season. Bronn might just fade away and live a life off screen. Yara’s only use could be Theon redemption, but it would feel cheap to do so.
Of other named characters, the two Lord of Light guys are the first to go starting with the one who performs the resurrections (not the one who is brought back). Jorah for sure dies and either wields or is killed by Jon’s Mormont sword. Tormund likely is turned (and later encounters Brienne), and my guess is Jon is the only one to come back alive. How Jon by himself brings the turned Hound to KL, I do not know.
Any thought that maybe Jon finds Benjen Stark, and brings him (willingly) back to Kings Landing?
Didn’t Benjen tell Bran he couldn’t pass the wall as a wight due to its magic?
The Night King must have some plans up his sleeve to get rid of that magic.
I think at some point The Wall comes tumbling down.
This, and the opening sequence shows massive amounts of sea ice at the east end of the wall, so possibly they could just go around it.
The books made a big deal at several points about the fact that the wall seems to be melting or otherwise becoming degraded. Possibly due to lack of maintenance by the Night’s Watch (how do you maintain a magical thousand foot wall of ice?), but also maybe a sign that the white walkers are somehow taking it down.
Death by a thousand ice picks.
You know what might help with this? A zombie dragon.
Is it consensus now that he wrote the Song of Ice and Fire, and thus cannot die?
Yes That does seem to be the widespread take
It would be weird to include him in the story if he weren’t. He’s not a fighter, politician, conniver, etc. He offers very little to the story that couldn’t have been taken up by another minor character or series of them.
Man, no one had Uncle Benjen.
He was already (un)dead … not sure how they kill him again.
I’m more than a little disappointed to learn that all of the Benjen foreshadowing (at least in the books) results only in one of the two out-of-nowhere rescues it took to keep Jon alive in one mission.
We don’t actually see him die so who knows.
So does Jon get to survive the flames from an ice dragon?
I guess he can be killed at least 5 more times.
Did not see the dragon death / revial coming though
Once the death occurred, the revival seemed pretty obvious. They already had undead bears, so why wouldn’t he. That was like the greatest prize of them all. Only thing surprising was them showing it so soon afterward.
When I saw the chains, my first reaction was “wait, how can fire-breathing things become servants of winter”
It seems everything dragon is anathema to these guys.
Exactly. What is it going to do, breathe ice now?
why not? like white dragons.
it’s like you guys never spent your 5th grade playing D&D.
Game of Thrones isn’t a DnD fantasy world, though.
dammit. you owe me a new computer. one that’s not full of coffee sprayed out my nose.
In the fantasy realm, there are such thing as ice dragons.
In different fantasy realms, there are all kinds of things.
Doesn’t mean I’d expect to see lightsabers, channelers trying to avoid the taint of the Dark One, Windrunners, or any other concept in unrelated fantasy universes.
Sure, but in a world of dragons and animal resurrections, it’s not that out of line to think killing a dragon in front of the Night King would end with this result. I just saw an immediate connection in how the guys were dealing with their dead, not to leave anyone behind. But the books could easily give a different impression?
I’m not saying it breaks the world, just that it seems inconsistent with the rules I had implied for the white walkers.
Also, a critique I heard elsewhere that makes sense: where the hell did the white walkers get that much forged chain? Do they have metal workers that somehow don’t mind fire?
The chain thing is definitely an issue. As is how they go down there to hook it. I’d guess it came from one of the harbors they took over. And what were they dragging it along for (or did they go back for it?)?
WTF JUST HAPPENED
OK, I’m calling it; time of shark-jumping 9:47pm.
Suddenly you can call in a tactical dragon-strike in real time. After seasons of plots that depend on how long it takes to get anywhere, now Gendry runs to the wall, a raven flies from Eastwatch to Dragonstone, and the dragons fly back to the wilderness and find Jon and company in the middle of a snowstorm, all in a matter of hours?
And several ridiculous conversations didn’t help:
Sansa has never talked to Arya about what she did between Kings Landing and Winterfell before now?
Tyrion is suddenly picking a fight with Daenerys about the succession, even as he himself observes that if she dies they’re all dead?
And Daenerys and Jon holding hands and simpering like lovelorn teenagers? Give me a FKing break.
So much lazy writing …
The Arya/Sansa thing was that special kind of bad TV writing that relies on characters not telling each other the most obvious things. So aggravating.
So there’s a (hopefully correct) theory that Arya & Sansa are playing Littlefinger still. They point to the fact that Arya could have easily used a mask to get the paper from him and that with her heighten sense would have been able to sense him around. The idea being that conflict in her room was an act for his benefit.
hey, if plotholes were shark jumps, we’d allllll be riding teleporting sand snakes.
just kidding. i don’t know what that means. had to look it up. the shark drowned for me around season 2.
Yeah, I wasn’t happy about this one. Even forgiving Arya v Sansa, that was just straight up boring. Both characters at this point are better than that. The Tyrion thing was foolish. If she dies, Cersei is Queen, end of story. He knows this. The Jon & Dany thing felt like pandering.
And the whole bullshit about how fast she got there. Maybe if they somehow alluded to the fact that it took weeks for it all to happen (and somehow they stayed alive during that), then maybe. But that was a special kind of rushed. Not to mention all the randoms that were killed. They only showed the main cast and then suddenly someone (not them) dies. WTF. And none of that even get into whether it made sense for her, while not even really believing the White Walkers exist, to willingly to come to their aid. There was nothing in the story to suggest it. And there was nothing special about her riding in to save the day that should have made Jon willing to bend the knee.
Yeah, if you are going to have red shirts there just to die, at least give us a scene with the red shirts before they bite it.
It’s really disappointing what they’re doing with Arya and Sansa, especially around Littlefinger.
I had such hopes after some of the earlier Sansa/Littlefinger scenes – “No need to have the last word. I’ll just assume it was something clever.”
It’s just so unlike Arya to get into a pissing competition about who messed up what. Not to mention your point earlier about how somehow she’s getting out-stealthed by Littlefinger.
It would have been so easy to add a 30 second scene where they find a cave to hide in (or something) then get discovered when the Night King arrives at the back of the army. That buys you at least days.
Also, I thought the lake scene was interesting in that the wights are not actually controlled by the Walkers, but are in a position to make their own choices.
That said, if this stuff is from the GRRM meetings, I can better understand why dude can’t finish his books.
Also, too: couldn’t Brann have “seen” it coming and sent the Raven? That leaves Gendry there to fight (rather than forcing someone else to use his weapon for no reason) and also solves the timeline problem.
That one makes the most sense. It would perhaps take some doing for the raven to have come from Winterfell rather than the Wall in terms of trust, but that’s pretty trivial. I do think that the lake could have easily backed into a cave. Then your few extra seconds to give a good long sense that time has passed. Even a “they’ve been gone for a month or whatever” from Davos or something. They’ve been way too liberal with time passage this season compared to previous seasons where it took forever for them to make it to their next position.
So can Bran warg a dragon? a zombie-dragon?
There you go. Brann takes out Night King with Zombie dragon. Entire Army collapses. (Why he waits until after the wall is very beautifully destroyed unclear.)
Agree with all y’all, that episode sucked in a continuity, plot-development sense. The special effects were top notch though, and I was certainly engaged. I just don’t like that these supposed master storytellers (Martin, Benioff/Weiss) have so little grasp on their full arc that they can spend six seasons moving as slowly as they did and then two seasons dashing along this new pace.
And the death toll of important characters was basically nil. There damn well better be some major fatalities next week, and/or a Cleganebowl.
Another gripe for me was the repetition … yet another character’s slo-mo descent into deep water and implausible survival (Tyrion, Jamie – in spades with all that armor – and now Jon), and lots of precious time spent on a lengthy battle against the undead (pre-dragons’ arrival) that wasn’t nearly as impressive as Hardhome and didn’t really contribute anything to the plot.
Right? What was the point of Jon falling in the water? He could just get surrounded away from the main group and be forced to be left behind.
It would have certainly made Dany waiting for him make more sense if they had done that. Falling into frozen water, while covered in furs, while surrounded by White Walkers, it should have been a certainty he was dead.
After Jamie’s escape, anything is possible.
Clearly water doesn’t have the same properties in Westeros.
And another repetition, in the same episode no less, with both brothers calling Cersei’s bluff.
One common point between the last two episodes were the scenes where a bunch of characters who haven’t seen each other since season X are walking in a big group somewhere and engage in banter / catching up. First it was the seven samurai heading north to catch a wight. This time it was Tyrion, Bronn, Brienne, the Hound, Jaime, et al, coming and going from the queen meetup.
Also, why didn’t they take any dragonglass on their little trip north of the wall?
So, if Lyanna told Ned that the baby’s name was Aegon Targaryen, and thus that he was legitimate, then Ned knew for the next 14 years of Robert Baratheon’s reign that he was not in fact the true King, agreed to serve as his Hand knowing that, and sent the true heir to the Iron Throne to the Night’s Watch?
Lyanna never called him a Targaryen to Ned, just Aegon. That’s why Bran when he brought it up suggested it should have been Aegon (Jon) Sand, rather than Snow. As far as Ned was concerned, he was the bastard son of the man who raped his sister, just that his sister wanted the child safe and cared for. So he did.
She does so too! She whispers “His name is Aegon Targaryen. You have to protect him. Promise me Ned”.
Bran didn’t know about the wedding till Sam told him, whereupon he knew to look for it. I guess he’d previously just accepted the kidnapped/raped story and didn’t think to vision-check it.
I suppose Ned could have disbelieved her, as he likely didn’t know about the annulment, right?
She technically wouldn’t have the right to legitimize him as a Targaryen, so just saying the name wouldn’t necessary make it so beyond pointing out who the father is.
Robert has just overthrown the Mad King and seized the throne, so I’m not sure how strong a claim to be the true heir any suddenly-uncovered Targaryen would have. Since his name is now a death sentence, Ned un-names Jon to keep his promise to his sister.
My question would be why Lyanna would allow the fiction to stand and start a war, especially given how close she’s supposed to be to Ned.
Best episode of the season, partially redeemed the narrative shortcomings of last few. I’m a little disappointed that only Littlefinger died of the major players (Tormund and Baric TBD). Loved the way Cersei was given the same fratricidal option by both Tyrion and Jaime and essentially made the same choice each time.
Kit Harrington and Emilia Clark may be the weakest actors in the whole show. But Kit sure does have a fine ass.
My god that ass. I’m still speechless.
That was an objectively marvelous ass.
There are so few of us.
I’m straighter than most arrows, and yet that gave me a special feeling.
Of course, the fact that Jon was unknowingly nailing his aunt (while still far less disgusting than knowingly banging your sister) tempered my enthusiasm to a degree.
In the grossest way, it’s encouraged in House Targaryean to keep the blood line pure.
She’s 100% pregnant now.
Rhaegar looked exactly like Viserys
I honestly thought it was the same actor. Was it?
I was convinced it was, but it was not.
Google says no.
What was going on in that opening scene? The Unsullied and the Dothraki were outside of what castle with Jaime and Bronn inside? Or were those the walls of Kings Landing? I missed something.
Some time passed, then we rejoined Dany’s armies as reunited outside King’s Landing. We last saw the Unsullied at Casterly Rock, blockaded by Euron’s fleet. But Euron had since sailed back to KL after destroying Grey Worm’s ships, so presumably the Unsullied marched over to KL where they met up with the Dothraki as insurance against Cersei killing all her guests, I guess,
I’ll buy that.
Unless Jaime kills the Night King I’m going to say that the bring-a-wight-to-show-Cersei plan didn’t work out super well.
I can still, after having upheld his oath, seen the worthiness of the Queen/King, turn around and finally kill Cersei. In which case, it could still pay off. Ugh, I’m so tired of Cersei. She’s so one dimensional and boring.
Interesting… she seems to have had the most successful season of anyone though. And not too implausibly.
Oh, I don’t doubt the plausibility of her character at all. In fact, of the entire season, her character has been the most so. No weirdness, questionable decisions, etc. But that doesn’t make her any less boring or predictable.
I totally agree. It’s not just that I hate her, it’s that she’s so boring.
If it got Jamie to turn on Cersei, I’d say slightly worth it. Also it did show Dany how seriously she needs to take the army of the dead. Not their main intention, but it sure helped.
Ice dragon though.
Yeah,that’s certainly not ideal.
As Farhan Zaidi said to Slusser the other day regarding Beane’s approach to trades, “Focus on what we’re getting, not what we’re giving up,”
Two Tyrion theories I read today:
1. In the part of their meeting we didn’t see, he secretly cut a deal with Cersei, perhaps even suggesting her fake cooperation strategy.
2. He’s actually in love with Danerys himself, hence the distressed look while outside her room while she and Jon wete hooking up.
Definitely #1. It’s really the only way he comes out of that one alive.
#1 I could definitely see. #2 would annoy me greatly. We already have Jorah, we don’t need another person pining after her.
Re #1, I’m not sure what he’d have to offer in a deal, or why either of them would trust the other to uphold it. I’m also assuming that by now no-one is as stupid as to trust Cersei’s word on anything (and tangentially, Jon’s speech on trust and lies was a nice political jab)
Re #2, much as he might love Danerys for restoring his faith in something, I don’t think he has any romantic hopes. I think he’s more concerned with the two of them getting distracted from the task at hand. Jon’s secret bending of the knee has already blindsided him and derailed the bring-the-dead-to-Cersei plan, and sailing to the North is just stupid when the seas are where they’ve suffered their worst losses and Euron is still on the loose. Why wouldn’t some subset of worthies (Danerys, Jon, Tyrion, …) just fly to Winterfell to announce the alliance against the dead while the armies are marching?
What I don’t understand is why she wouldn’t let Jon stay north. She won’t need him, and the oath wouldn’t stick if Cersei betrays her promise anyway.
I think she would have (at least as queen rather than horndog), but he’d already refused.
I think it’s less of a specific tit for tat deal for Cersei. But it’s clear Dany is moving north and he pointed out that there’s zero risk of her betraying that with the proof of the white walkers. So Cersei simply tells them she’ll go too, they move their troops north to fight and allows Cersei to do what she accused Dany of potentially doing: consolidate unencumbered.
Cersei knows she won’t win that war against Dany’s army. But she may have a shot if that battle is delayed and it happens after they engage in a damaging war against the White Walkers. If that’s the case, he could have agreed to send a raven when they were returning so that she could be ready.
I figure he just told her to lie, not because he favors her but because he thinks it is the only way to get out of the stalemate they were in. Dany might not believe the lie, but it would at least allow her to save face and not roast Cersei right then and there. Jon probably will believe it having been raised by Ned and all.
Cersei buys time to have her baby and consolidate a bit. Tyrion gets Dany and Jon to go North and deal with Cersei later. That’s the deal.
But then agreeing to withdraw her armies would have been a much better lie, because as it stands her faithlessness is going to be pretty obvious when they are a no-show.
By the time her armies don’t arrive north, it’ll be too late. Dany’s armies will already be there. And they’ll already be engaged with the White Walkers. Even if they wanted to turn back and fuck with that, they couldn’t.
Also, I’m not sure Tyrion and Dany haven’t laid some kind of trap for Cersei.
Good point, since that was another conversation 2 eps ago which we didn’t see the end of.
Daario is still floating out there. Does he have a connection to the golden company? Could they be double crossing Cersei?
I think Daario was from a rival sellsword company, but still maybe.
As I recall from the books, the Golden Company was founded by Targaryen exiles, so maybe there’s another connection.
Second Sons, no?
Supposedly they shot Jon’s speech on the day after the presidential election.
Elcroata bait: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59a446f7e4b05710aa5dec97
A friend who works as a tourist guide there told me she was asked more than once if the city walls were built for the series
I hope she replied that the whole city was build for the series, and that everyone who lives there is an extra.
Then they asked to see the giant dragon skulls.
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