Also unsettling in that theoretically given the already fairly wide divergence between the books and the show across certain story lines, is what we are about to watch even going to occur within the books?
I always waited to read the book after the TV season. For some reason it seemed better for the TV to be surprising and then let the books unfold and see where they diverged. I feel like we have a small inkling with Arya’s immediate future, but that’s about it. I wish she’d just leave the House of Black & White. Who the hell knows what their purpose even is, but I don’t like that the end goal is evidently to strip away her identity.
Brienne in a landslide. I’m gonna have nightmares about 1000-year-old hag Melisandre – unless, of course, this is what she did every night before bed, and they are just showing us this for the first time.
Yeah, at first I thought she was getting naked in preparation to do some crazy magic, but then it seemed like this might just be her usual bedtime routine.
I think it is magic, that she’s gathering up all her power, including that used to hide her true look from the world, in order to conduct some badass magic (say, a resurrection of some kind?).
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
I honestly forget how much they have gone into this on the show, but the whole concept of resurrection is certainly much more prevalent within the books.
Also, I forget this as well, but has the show mentioned at any point brought up the Warg concept? I thought they were gonna go down that path with Ghost when he was first shown, but I guess that more just the standard “the direwolf is super pissed that his master was murdered” scene. In any event, I thought the status of John as Warg (at least in the books) could also play some role in his revival.
During the thread where the Hound was dragging Arya around the riverlands, they were captured by Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Dondarion. The Hound fought against Dondarion for his freedom and won. He was allowed to leave, but they showed Dondarion come back from the dead afterwards. So yeah, they have definitely introduced the idea of red priests resurrecting people.
IIRC, when Melisandre comes to get Gendry from the Brothers Without Banners she is shocked by Thoros’ ability to resurrect Dondarrion. Is that because of his renowned debauchery or because resurrection is beyond her?
Some other corners of the Internet saw Mellisandre’s reveal (and the removal of the necklace which preceded it) as indicative of a “crisis of faith” on her part. Interesting, though I’m not sure I buy that.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
I feel like her extreme devotion to serving just totally fits with her character. I don’t see it as desperation, I see it as strict adherence to a knightly code. She’s completely out of place as a female warrior in a man’s world. Renly was one of the first men to treat her with respect rather than derision and being assigned to his king’s guard was clearly the highest validation of her life (plus she was in love with him.) Serving him gave her life a meaning and purpose she hungered for. To deviate now from her perceived obligations would strip all meaning and pride from her existence.
I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that it wasn’t true to her character – it absolutely is. Without an honorable high-born to serve her code makes no sense and she loses her compass, as also seen in her reaction to Podric’s suggestion that she had satisfied her obligation to Catelyn Stark.
This is probably just because I’m who I am, but the ceremony where Brienne pledged her service to Catelyn and then to Sansa both got me all emotionally worked up, probably because the actors did a great job of displaying the depth of emotion and commitment involved.
Having said this, I also wanted someone to say after the pledge ceremony something like “OK, great, now let’s get the FK out of here before Ramsay sends more goons”.
I’m also extremely happy that Theon has rediscovered (in an emotional sense, of course) his missing parts. Either that, or in GoT world, men are able to grow new ones.
I don’t think it was an accident that this episode, almost entirely about steps towards returns to greatness from its strong women, also saw some redemption from the two male characters without penises.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
I was wondering about that. The spoiler tags seem to be trying to keep stuff from the books secret for those who’ve not read and intend to. It would be easier not to use them, so if you’re a future book person who would care about spoilers, speak now or forever hold your peace.
I’m torn, because it seems whatever they’re planning will result in lots of action and high drama. However they annoy me because all of them are ignoring the fact that OBERON BROUGHT THIS SHIT ON HIMSELF!! If he hadn’t been shooting his mouth off and focused on the stabbing, the Mountain would be dead. I get it, you want to speak your piece to get the full measure of justice, but dammit man, pay attention!!! It’s hardly the Lannister’s fault he didn’t finish the job.
Plus I really liked Doran Martell, although much of that stems from the book Doran and less from the TV Doran.
Also, it is preposterous to ask us to believe that the Dorne citizenry is now seething to overthrow Doran because of his failure to avenge an event which happened 15 years ago.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
Do we think that Roose is trying to get Ramsay to kill Fat Walda, what with the constant talk of “well, if you don’t produce an heir with Sansa maybe she’ll have a boy?” What’s his play there? Is he just being sadistic?
My take is that he is just trying to keep Ramsay motivated. One of the scary things about Ramsay is that he’s actually pretty fking competent at whatever task he applies himself to. Roose seems to want to take advantage of this while also redirecting Ramsay from stuff that is counterproductively sadistic.
If he kills Roose, then he has to eliminate the baby too. His real problems down the road are Rickon and Sansa, but he may just want to firm up his grip on the Dreadfort.
It’s a bit odd that Roose knew about Ramsay brutalizing Sansa, and allowed it to happen. Or, I should say, allowed it to happen before she produced an heir. You’d think he would want that prize fully protected until she had served her purpose. He had no way of knowing that Ramsay wouldn’t go too far and accidentally kill her, or that Sansa would get fed up and kill herself.
Nah, I think this was GRRM’s plan. You can’t always make the unexpected plot twist when you’re starting to wrap things up. There will be surprises, for sure, but plots should start consolidating, not fragmenting further.
The last books will mostly follow the TV script (if he finishes at all). This may not serve the book readers best. Sorry, readers.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
So how did they recover Balon’s body for the funeral? Seems like it would have been swept out to see pretty quickly from that narrow channel.
And having established that the dragons were friendly with Missandei, why didn’t Tyrion take her with him to free them rather than Varys – or better yet, have her do the freeing.
That’s exactly who I thought of. And I still cannot fathom this TV (and book) interest in the Ironborn while leaving out Quentyn and Young Griff. I was seriously hoping they’d leave the whole kingsmoot on the cutting room floor, but it seems that’s not to be.
It’s entirely possible that it did get swept out to sea then washed ashore again. But that did seem odd to me too.
And I think he only cared about whether the Dragons were willing to trust others besides Dany. Given his desire to have and be around dragons as a kid, he was probably hoping he could go down there, be safe, and maybe sway them to trust him. Not his brightest moment though.
Pre-Reek Theon kept referring to himself as the heir to the Iron Islands, as if he would just take over once Balon kicked it. But after Pops goes in the drink there’s no discussion of that kind of succession, just the Iowa caucuses with more drowning known as the Kingsmoot. Did Theon not understand the way things work since he spent so much time among the land lovers? Or just something GRRM hadn’t plotted out?
Alternate thought. Prior to re-uniting with Daddy, he seemed to think he had a high standing among the Iron Islands and probably figured he’d be in good favor with him and utilize his father’s influence to gain it. After he meets up with Daddy, he’s not the same person. He suddenly feels he needs to make his name, etc. likely a result of him realizing he was being delusional.
Ramsay’s kind of a dumbass for doing what he did in full view of the maester, no? If anyone can get word out quickly to the other houses in the north, the Twins, the Wall, etc. it’s that guy. And sure, he doesn’t want to be flayed, but his days are numbered anyway knowing what he knows, and he can poison the crap out of Ramsay and Karstark if need be.
A maester with that sort of inclination likely poisons the crap out of Ramsay much sooner realizing that if Ramsay is next in line, he’s fucked. I don’t get the feeling the maester there is nearly as cunning which makes sense given that family.
I’m spoilering this because it may or may not be a spoiler from the books, but I’d love a book reader to clear this up for me: Was it only in the books, or also on TV that Gilly is taking Mance Rayder’s baby to safety (not her own child who is still back at the wall)? I’m mixing the two mediums and last night when they called the baby Sam I got confused about how the two plotlines differed.
Book: Not only did they swap Mance’s baby with Gilly’s, but they also swapped Mance for Tormond. I don’t remember any baby being born to Mance and wife in the TV series, and that is most definitely little Sam with Gilly. In the book, Gilly was disconsolate during the entire ship journey since her own baby was left behind, but last night seemed seemed pretty cheery, especially when looking at little Sam.
I don’t think the crannogmen are known for their swordsmanship. They are more archers and guerrilla fighters, as I recall. Wouldn’t have been believable.
They did give an explanation in one of the lasts two books, right? Was that misdirection, or rather the “book version” and now we’re going to get the TV version?
OK What am I remembering about Ned Stark needing to cross some treacherous ground (in the Eyrie maybe) and a woman helping him make the journey and keeping him alive because she totally knows the terrain and people. She gets pregnant and he takes the baby to raise because he is so grateful. Am I completely losing my mind?!?
A Dance With Dragons relates a rumor that Ned knocked up the daughter of a fisherman who had schlepped Ned from the Vale to White Harbor (home of Lord “Too Fat to Sit a Horse” Manderly) in the early stages of the rebellion, when Ned was hiding from the forces of the Mad King.
It’s not presented as the truth, though, just a tale that was told in White Harbor. I wouldn’t say it is any more reliable than the rumor in Winterfell (believed by Catelyn) that Jon’s mother was Ashara Dayne, Ser Arthur Dayne’s widow, to whom Ned supposedly delivered Arthur’s sword after killing him.
Thanks for clearing that up. One of my problems is that I listened to all of these on audiobook while walking my dogs, and it’s so easy for my mind to wander a bit and particularly with all these characters, I can forget what I thought I knew. And now I also have a tendency to mix up what happened in the books to how they changed it for TV.
Another thing that is weird is that I don’t know how to spell anything. I only know the audio pronunciations. I see online that Theon’s sister’s name is spelled Yara, but in the audiobook they pronounce it “Asha” so it’s very confusing.
And he insists on saying “Bry-een” instead of Bree-en, so that’s weird too.
They actually changed the name of Theon’s sister for the show because “Asha” would be too easily confused with “Osha” the wildling. In the show it’s Yara.
OK so this is a tech report thing–nevermoor. When I type two different comments in the same thread, it duplicates my text from the previous post. (Which is why my Tormund/Brienne comment appears here -the 2nd comment, and below-the first comment.) Does this happen to anyone else? I have to delete the text that I just posted from the comment box, and then type my new comment.
1. I always thought Davos was a bit dull, but he’s really growing on me. He’s getting some of the best dialog. I can’t decide if I want him to stay and hold down the fort at the wall, or go off with Jon to wherever he’s headed.
2. Aaaaaah not poor Rickon!!!! Not Shaggydog!!!!! It seems a bit convenient that all of Ramsay’s rivals are just neatly showing up and are easy to kill.
4. I am completely in love with the idea of Jon’s watch being over. I cannot wait to see what’s on his bucket list now that he’s freed from the oath of the watch. Obviously I want his first order of business to make Ramsay Snow die a slow and painful death. But I also reeeeeeeallyyy want him to reunite with Arya.
5. Given the show’s constant choice to linger excessively on nude Melisandre, I could have used a smidge more nekkid Jon Snow time before Davos swooped in with that coat.
6. I love the idea of Tyrion working on training those two dragons. Are we to assume they’re still in the dungeon, but free to move around without chains.
7. The scene with Greyworm talking about his patrols was hilarious.
So the Wildlings and Knights of the Vale retake Winterfell; the Dothraki & Dragons combo re-takes the cities of Slaver’s Bay and this time they execute all the masters and put the government in the hands of the freed slaves; and then they all converge on King’s Landing, overthrow the Lannisters, install the Mother of Dragons on the Iron Throne and Sansa as Warden of the North, and everyone lives happily ever after. Right?
Very unlikely. I don’t think Slaver’s Bay gets solved. I do think Jon Snow retakes Winterfell (and probably this season). I don’t think he and Danerys cooperate to rule Westeros. I think they end up having a serious fire-mage v. dragon showdown (though, perhaps, interrupted by winter coming).
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
Nah, Bran will show up and point out that they’re cousins. And failing that, Tyrion will point out to Dany that the Stark family is known for their loyalty and that making nice with them is in her best interests. Since their brands of “ruling” are pretty peaceful and compatible, the likelihood for conflict seems pretty low.
Danerys inspires armies to swear fealty like it’s the easiest thing ever. It remains to be seen whether she can ever use this ability to accomplish anything.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
Taking the slave cities was an accomplishment. It’s the politics necessary to hold and govern them she’s not so strong on (and retiring the dragons didn’t help).
Which is why she needs Tyrian to help her. Other than that (keeping him, not wiping out all Lanisters), you’re piece above looks about right, but makes way too much sense for them to do it that way. They’ll find some way to muddy it up further.
Aside from the possibility that they may be related? Dany needs someone who understands the politics of Westeros. And someone who knows a thing or two about actually ruling which Dany is pretty weak on.
Maybe, but consider that GRRM has never been about traditional fantasy where you assemble a perfect party and achieve great justice.
She’d be more interesting with the combined power of the formerly-slave soldiers and dothraki but with only tenuous political support.
The biggest unknown, though, is when the Walkers are going to invade, since that’ll be the major curveball. Almost certainly not before Dany gets to Westeros, but probably before she has much success there.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
“…when the Walkers are going to invade.” This was my biggest complaint about last night. The evil caricature of Ramsey notwithstanding, I thought White Walker fear would motivate Jon Snow more than anything else.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
I agree, but only in the sense that I thought he would say something like “We won’t stand against the walkers without Westeros behind us, so I’m going to deliver that”
Instead he did the sort of off-note “I don’t want to fight anymore” thing.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
I think he’ll swing back around. He’s come to a point where he’s wondering wtf he’s even fighting for. There was honor in the Watch and the North once meant something to him. But that was all trashed. The man just got killed by his own guys and it soured him. He wanted no part in the Winterfell until Ramsey reminded him that he gave a shit about something. And now he’s motivated to act on it. The same thing will happen with the White Walkers, he’ll get a reminder and set to act on it.
I thought this was the best episode they’ve had in a long time. Really moved the plot forward in big ways (and ways that seem MUCH more interesting.) The weakest link is what is happening in King’s Landing. That plot line is super stale to me.
I loved the reunion between Jon and Sansa (although I would have preferred Jon and Arya.) The Slaver’s Bay thing will get much more interesting with the Dothraki involved. The Ironborn storyline is still a huge mystery to me. Why bother?
Both in the book and in the show, I just can’t believe that the high sparrow and faith militant are such a formidable adversary that the Lannister’s hands are tied. Of course they are off balance because Tywin is dead and Tommen is suddenly king, but putting down this type of insurrection is the type of thing that a typical iron throne occupant would take care of before breakfast.
I’ve wondered the same about that. They only have power because they gave it to them. Then again, the Lanisters are now pretty weak in general and most of Westeros is fractured. Seems like it has some potential to get interesting now that they’re planning on acting. But even then, it seems pretty short lived.
LF: [Transparent lie about Boltons kidnapping Sansa in the Vale and suggestion Yohn Royce tipped them off.]
RA: *not even looking away from falcon* PUSH HIM OUT THE MOON DOOR!
Also, that’s going to go well when the vale army joins up with Jon and his team. Littlefinger is going to have some serious explaining to do at Brienne’s swordpoint.
According to agency lore, one senior official, annoyed by the amount of time employees were wasting, was known to approach someone at the back of the line and whisper, “What have you done for your country today?â€
Can’t wait for that brawl. It’ll be interesting to see whether it ends up being a simple fight or whether it becomes political (e.g. Dany is in Westeros and the two are proxies for her foreign and local forces).
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
Jon Snow plays the scraggly northern hero (who kills Ramsay) forming an underfunded alliance that we root for instinctively. Dany plays the ultra-powerful ruler far too willing to use violence who gives lip service to doing good but really just likes a good grilling session. The Lannisters play the standing army caught between the two of ’em (perhaps with a broader southern alliance). As things hit the fan, the walkers invade. Only Dany can stop them (we know dragons are the trick there, not least because of the power of obsidian) but by then we all hate Dany. So WTF happens next?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
Because it doesn’t seem he can “change” the past in the sense of making things we have seen happen not happen. So you can spin off all kings of theories about how he is the source of any notable insanity (e.g. the Mad King), but he isn’t going to go back in time and save his dad or anything.
Also, not clear how much ability he’ll keep absent the three-eyed raven.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
My wife has been complaining for a while about the north of the wall storyline because it is so disconnected from everything else (and they just dropped it for an entire season!). This episode was a reminder that the white walkers are the real existential threat.
@MikeV: Yeah, I think that Bran might be the single most important character, with strong competition from Dany. Also Arya is still a real wildcard. I can’t tell where her storyline is going…
Anyone have bets on how far south the white walkers get before the final climax? Do they make it to Kings Landing?
I bet the action ultimately centers around Winterfell, where the story started.
I don’t think the walkers are really a grand-campaign sort of enemy, but rather one that either wins or loses 100% and quickly. That said, I bet they break through the wall.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
We’ve now had two Baby Benjen flashbacks, and Bran and Meera are not going to survive long without someone who knows his way around up there. Surely it’s time for him to reemerge…right?
Nope. The next big twist is for Bran to worg into the White Walker leader and take command of them, setting them on a collision course for the Mother of Dragons. Didn’t see that twist coming, did you.
So Benjen is obviously not really himself anymore after all he’s been through, but why wouldn’t he have ridden back down to Castle Black at some point to give the Night’s Watch some intelligence on the Walkers? He’s doing very little good just lurking around The Land of Always Winter or wherever they are. Just waiting around for Bran?
I had to avoid this thread until now because, as I found out to my chagrin, HBO GO does not work in Israel. Someone offered me to download last Sunday’s episode (dubbed in Hebrew) but I declined (which was dumb).
I like the fan theory that goes with that. Given the extensiveness of the books and the story, it would be quite genius. You root for her for so long only to realize holy shit, she’s all powerful and now she’s going to use it the wrong way.
She is the product of generations of strict in-breeding, her pops was a legendary nutcase/tyrant, and at least one of her brothers certainly would have been the same. The idea that she is going to turn out to be a sane, benevolent conquerer has been pretty dubious from the start.
I’m just getting tired of episodes ending with some dramatic moment where people are worshipping her. Also there was something corny about that scene. Needed a lot more Dothraki in the shot for it to be all that impressive.
If the Tyrells were really making a move on the Faith Militant, wouldn’t they have their star bannerman Randyll FKing Tarly leading the charge, ready to chop off sparrow heads with Heartsbane?
Yeah, they definitely identified them as BWB and Lord of Light-ers. I guess it could be mistaken identity. Sandor was captured by Beric and Thoros several seasons back, so you would think that crew might recognize him.
I am definitely intrigued by the role GRRM has religion playing in his end game. Especially with the entry into Danerys’ circle from the new red magic woman we saw the previous ep. If Dany has a heel turn in her future, the evil-turning Lord of Light forces might play a role.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
Such a waste. His part wasn’t even that critical. It was a throw away at best. I hope this is one of those gonna be resurrected guys, otherwise, my god why even bother?
I know I keep harping on the Ironborn, but really, what is the fking point? The show has so little time to tell the story, I just cannot fathom why they are giving the Ironborn so much screen time. Like Dany will think it’s a great idea to marry some lesser Westerosi lord. And how long would it take to build 1000 ships?
They start that storyline with the Sand Snakes, and then just forget about it, yet the stupid Greyjoys are all over the place.
And the House of Black and White. What a let down. The whole thing was so mysterious, so I was thinking well maybe when their purpose becomes clear, it will make sense why Arya is here and why it will be worth it for her to lose her identity and become “no one.” But now they are just assassins for hire and Arya was supposedly not “evolved” enough for their mission? I want Nymeria to rip that bob-haired girl’s face off.
I think we have to wait-and-see whether the ironborn play a major role in the obviously-upcoming invasion of Westeros. Seems like they might.
B&W is basically a path towards Arya becoming a badass killer, which I suspect will be integral towards the plot going forward.
I continue to think Dany’s heel turn might be solidified by killing Tyrion. He seems the least essential of the major characters, just defied her, etc.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
I guess they needed some way of getting Danerys her ships. And it will be amusing if there are two separate groups of Greyjoys vying to deliver a navy to her, since one or more likely both groups will simply have their ships taken and soldiers killed. But that’s an awful long way for GRRM to have give for a simple plot device.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
Was Theon ever anything other than a feckless dolt? I could not get past that thought while Yara was trying to coax him into growing a pair (so to speak).
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
Definitely an interesting one. The stuff about how she’d act with the money certainly rings true. I thought that a little odd in the moment that she’d suddenly act like a prima donna. Add in the fact that it would be pretty stupid to have that entire story line end with her being stabbed and, presumably killed, they’d need an out for why they’d stop going after her if she were to survive.
I think that’s a great theory. But I agree with one of the replies that I have no clue what the rules are for which faces can be “worn.” Do you have to be dead? Did you have to die at the hands (or in that death fountain) of the House of Black & White? I really wish they’d made that whole story line just a bit more clear. I feel confident that Arya is not dead.
I didn’t like this story. First, Arya recovered way too quickly from being gut-stabbed three times. Then she gets beat to hell in the chase. And then she’s able to beat the Waif who had always kicked her as before? Strains belief.
"Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
She jumped off that ledge, rolled down a bunch of stairs, knocked over a farmers market worth of fruit, and nobody batted an eye they were just like shit, better clean this stuff all up.
meanwhile a little girl fell out of the sky and was bleeding on the steps.
wat.
And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here
-slusser.
I agree it was completely unbelievable and I’m typically pretty willing to suspend my disbelief for the purpose of a good story line. I think they could have fixed it with just a few “the student becomes the master” moments in the training montages, so that you felt like what the Waif had going for her was the element of surprise by wearing a different face, but not that she had so much more fighting skill than Arya. And if they had made Arya’s initial injury much less severe.
That being said, I LOVED the way it resolved. I was never on board with her becoming no one and living her life out in their service. Aray being Arya is intrinsic to her nature and her personal cause. It just never made sense. I’m thrilled that she is finally out of the House of Black and White and heading home. Now to reunite with Nymeria…
Had that analysis turned out true, it would have been the that chase and fight sequence make a whole lot more sense. Either Arya wouldn’t have been hurt or Jaquen could have kicked her ass in the dark.
The showrunners seemed to have two goals here (1) ending the Arya in Braavos story somehow, and (2) figuring out who would win a fight between Jason Bourne and the T-1000.
Fun thing I just read: for next week’s Battle of the Bastards, the producers broke the 500 extras into Snow and Bolton teams and trained them totally separately, to foster rivalry.
1. Littlefinger actually comes through for once.
2. Seven hells that may have been the bloodiest thing I’ve seen ever.
3. Ramsay Bolton Snow, dog shit.
4. This episode took two shots of Crown Royal to get through.
5. I’m bombed.
That episode made up for the mehness of the last few. I just wish #3 were a little more involved. He deserves far far more. May be the best episode of the series.
I found it disappointingly predictable, though I do appreciate that they finally deliver a terrible death to Ramsay. It was clear at least two episodes ago that Jon was going to attack Winterfell with his wildling army and would be losing the battle until Littlefinger shows up with the knights of the Vale. There was a brief moment during the battle when I started to wonder if they would actually let Ramsay win the battle, kill all the Starks, and then get his comeuppance from the Night King’s army of the dead (who would you root for in that battle??)
And the cheerful look on that giant dog’s face after he licked some of the blood off Ramsay’s chin. He looked like he just found the world’s biggest tennis ball.
eh, it felt like all the expected stuff. Just a whole ton of it, all crammed into one episode.
I realize that they do have to wrap the series up in the next two seasons (and I think they said that they will be short seasons), but my favorite part of GoT is the way that it would always brutally crush our hopes for how the plot will unfold. I guess there is still time for more of that next season.
This entire season has been very meh. But it all seems like the movement of necessary pieces in the middle of the greater Westeros chess game. All the pieces seem to be in place now to start the next season, so here’s hoping.
There’s been a lot of commentary on the show setting the plot now it has outpaced the books, but this episode really made me think how far the fan-boards have equally outpaced the show. Very pretty and superficially gratifying, but the element of surprise – that jolting revision of all my hopes and expectations – is missed.
There are barrels and barrels of wildfire under King’s Landing, put there by the Mad King (Daenarys’ father). That’s where Tyrion got the wildfire that he used to blow up Stannis’ ships in the Battle of the Blackwater. It also came up one or two episodes ago in a conversation between Tyrion and Dany, when he convinces her to not just destroy the cities of Slaver’s Bay with her dragons because destroying an entire city is something only her crazy father would do.
After Tommen killed himself, there is no longer any obvious succession for the Iron Throne. All of the clergy died when the Sept of Baelor exploded, so that contributes further to the power vacuum. I’m sure that it’s very irregular for the king’s mother to take over, but who is going to stop her?
Yeah, this occurred to me too. I just sort of assumed that there was still leftover wildfire, but those barrels are getting into deus ex machina territory.
Did he commandeer all of it? My understanding is that Aerys’s pyromancers had hidden stashes all over the city that T and co. didn’t necessarily know about. It would make sense that he had the sept rigged up to blow.
My understanding was that Tyrion found a stash. When they showed it, it was in some sort of a cellar. When they discussed that the rumors were true, I assumed that not only did they have that stash that Tyrion found, but they also had it set up all over the city as well.
Having seen this episode twice now (and partially a third because I wanted to watch Baelor’s blow up), here are a few observations:
1. I agree there was a lack of the surprise-factor. I still loved it.
2. The music score during the Baelor scene was superb, especially the frenetic strings underscoring Lancel’s desperate attempt to get to the wildfire in time.
3. I appreciate the showrunners’ attempt to fix the Dorne subplot, especially since they avoided slaughtering us with the boring, insufferable characters from the book. Olenna telling the Sand Snakes to STFU was especially satisfying.
4. Hopefully they will dispense of the Ironborn with some epic naval battle early next season.
5. Varys sure made his way from Dorne to Meereen in a flash, in a twinkling of an eye.
6. Cersei is well on her way to becoming the Mad Queen. Jamie looked, shall we say, somewhat less than pleased.
7. Lyanna Mormont is FKing badass.
5. I thought that very very odd myself.
6. I suspect she dies early on when Dany arrives at King’s Landing next season. At least too early to become the Mad Queen. Dany likely becomes the Mad Queen by season’s end.
7. Hell yeah. That little actress is very impressive.
2. The score for that episode on the whole was amazing.
2. I’m pretty sure Dany will be sending a raven to fetch Dhario damn quick. There’s no one left for her to marry. Except Jon, who’s what, technically her nephew? Or Jaimie, which would actually be a pretty sick burn on Cersei, but I don’t see him ever moving on, no matter how cray she gets. (Although it the book he seemed pretty damn over it, no?)
3. I loved the Arya scene. Glad to see she’s back to crossing off names. I hope she heads to Winterfell–I really want that reunion with Jon.
4. I love Lyanna Mormont.
5. I really did not expect the bloodbath of episode 10. I thought episode 9 was all we’d get and then 10 would be less bloody and more setting up the relationships for next season.
He’s going to figure out how to defeat the Others in there maybe? That’s what he was working on in Castle Black’s crappy library. Now he’s got the whole Westerosi internet at his disposal.
I’m at a loss for Sam’s story line too. Being in the south, I guess he will be one of the first characters to encounter Dany if she lands in Dorne and starts her conquering from that direction?
I thought about that, but maybe you don’t really need to have them, maybe they just appear? In the book it seemed like you needed a physical one at the ready, but in the show, when Jaqen gave Arya the coin, he turned around and went from young hottie to older non-hottie, he just seemed to magically change faces.
I understood the library of faces in the HoB&W as offerings and takings, but as you say that can’t be the only way to change – he also changed back into JH for Arya at the door to the HoB&W, and though we never saw his actual execution of Arya’s three requests a change of face would undoubtedly have helped.
Knowing what they now, and having been through what they’ve been through, I’d like Rob and Sansa to be smarter. She should have told Littlefinger never to speak ill of her brother to her; he should have repeated the truth that Sansa won the battle, and she’s the Queen in the North.
Meanwhile the finale will be between the houses of Daenerys Targaryen, Cersei Lannister, Sansa Stark, Yara Greyjoy, Ellaria Martell, Oleanna Tyrell … and Robin Arryn!
Only Bran (among the living) knows Jon’s true parentage, so for all intents and purposes he’s still a Snow.
His military career is also pretty inauspicious – doomed his posse first time north of the wall, killed by his men at Castle Black, and got his army slaughtered at the Battle of the Bastards (till Sansa saved them).
Sansa as Queen – with Jon as her general – carries both the North and the Vale with her.
And of course he’s the only matrimonial alliance worth making for Daenerys, which leads to a Queens’ Federation between the North/Vale (with Sansa making Robin her consort), The Iron Islands, Dorne, and the Iron Throne-led remainder.
I always liked Ned Stark, but now I think he’s sort of a dick. I get him not blabbing around to the entire world the parentage of Jon, but why not tell Caitlin at least. She was loyal to him for years after thinking he was a cheating shitheel, Did he think she’d betray him or Jon given the truth? And it would have not only made their relationship less contentious, but also a better life for Jon. Instead of him being the shunted bastard, he would have been the welcomed bastard. The fact that he allowed him to go off to the wall at what, 13 or 14, instead of divulging who he was so that Caitlin would let him stay at Winterfell. What the hell? That is some cold shit.
King Robert didn’t seem like the sharpest tool in the box. I don’t think questioning was in his wheelhouse.
But I get your point that other people might have thought it strange/unbelievable. Still, seems like a dick move to have Jon’s life turn out as it did. Winding up at the wall is a really shitty outcome, and Ned knew that, but rather than say hey Caitlin, Jon gets to stay here and here’s why, he just throws up his hands and says “I love you Jon, now go to the wall and maybe some day I’ll tell you who your mom is.” WHEN IT IS TOO LATE AND YOU’VE ALREADY TAKEN THAT CRAP VOW.
One difference that has been particularly noticeable this season, having overtaken the books, is how quickly and straightforwardly people get from A to B. We see them set out, and the next time we see them they’re arriving at their destination. What happened to all of the random shit that used to happen en route that diverted the best laid plans?
This is very true. I wonder how much of it is that they are shortening the last two seasons to just 13 episodes combined? They feel like they have less time to meander through the twists and turns?
In some cases it was a blessing, like I was not looking forward to Brienne and Sansa slogging through the snow for three episodes getting to the wall. It was such a breath of fresh air when they just showed up one episode later. Then again, I am curious to know how Arya made it to the twins.
Nuh, nuh, nuh-nuh-nuh, nuh, nuh-nuh-nuh.
It’s unsettling as a book reader that I now have no idea what is going to happen with most storylines. Hell, with all storylines really.
Also unsettling in that theoretically given the already fairly wide divergence between the books and the show across certain story lines, is what we are about to watch even going to occur within the books?
I always waited to read the book after the TV season. For some reason it seemed better for the TV to be surprising and then let the books unfold and see where they diverged. I feel like we have a small inkling with Arya’s immediate future, but that’s about it. I wish she’d just leave the House of Black & White. Who the hell knows what their purpose even is, but I don’t like that the end goal is evidently to strip away her identity.
Hi everybody – I’m about to go off-line until 10:00 pm.
Hey hey, eastern time zone here. I think it’s a tossup between Brienne and Melisandre for my favorite moment.
Brienne in a landslide. I’m gonna have nightmares about 1000-year-old hag Melisandre – unless, of course, this is what she did every night before bed, and they are just showing us this for the first time.
Yeah, at first I thought she was getting naked in preparation to do some crazy magic, but then it seemed like this might just be her usual bedtime routine.
I think it is magic, that she’s gathering up all her power, including that used to hide her true look from the world, in order to conduct some badass magic (say, a resurrection of some kind?).
That is my take as well.
I honestly forget how much they have gone into this on the show, but the whole concept of resurrection is certainly much more prevalent within the books.
Also, I forget this as well, but has the show mentioned at any point brought up the Warg concept? I thought they were gonna go down that path with Ghost when he was first shown, but I guess that more just the standard “the direwolf is super pissed that his master was murdered” scene. In any event, I thought the status of John as Warg (at least in the books) could also play some role in his revival.
During the thread where the Hound was dragging Arya around the riverlands, they were captured by Brotherhood Without Banners, led by Dondarion. The Hound fought against Dondarion for his freedom and won. He was allowed to leave, but they showed Dondarion come back from the dead afterwards. So yeah, they have definitely introduced the idea of red priests resurrecting people.
I’ve also heard about the warg idea.
IIRC, when Melisandre comes to get Gendry from the Brothers Without Banners she is shocked by Thoros’ ability to resurrect Dondarrion. Is that because of his renowned debauchery or because resurrection is beyond her?
I saw a suggestion that the Thoros resurrection opened Melissandra’s eyes to how much more magic was now in play in the world.
Some other corners of the Internet saw Mellisandre’s reveal (and the removal of the necklace which preceded it) as indicative of a “crisis of faith” on her part. Interesting, though I’m not sure I buy that.
No contest. That episode was all about Brienne for me. What a total badass. And Podrick really was showing some stuff too! I love that guy.
So he’s really dead? Really and truly? That’s very disappointing.
Still, if Dolorous Ed can rally the wildlings, we may yet see Ghost eviscerate Alliser Thorne!!
Brienne is certainly badass, but she’s also absurdly desperate to serve somebody.
So absent flashbacks, they kept Kit Harrington on the cast (and credits) just for his dead body? I guess it has kept people guessing/hoping.
And then the Wildlings take over the wall and become the New Night’s Watch under Lord Commander Tormund Giantsbane.
I feel like her extreme devotion to serving just totally fits with her character. I don’t see it as desperation, I see it as strict adherence to a knightly code. She’s completely out of place as a female warrior in a man’s world. Renly was one of the first men to treat her with respect rather than derision and being assigned to his king’s guard was clearly the highest validation of her life (plus she was in love with him.) Serving him gave her life a meaning and purpose she hungered for. To deviate now from her perceived obligations would strip all meaning and pride from her existence.
I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that it wasn’t true to her character – it absolutely is. Without an honorable high-born to serve her code makes no sense and she loses her compass, as also seen in her reaction to Podric’s suggestion that she had satisfied her obligation to Catelyn Stark.
This is probably just because I’m who I am, but the ceremony where Brienne pledged her service to Catelyn and then to Sansa both got me all emotionally worked up, probably because the actors did a great job of displaying the depth of emotion and commitment involved.
Having said this, I also wanted someone to say after the pledge ceremony something like “OK, great, now let’s get the FK out of here before Ramsay sends more goons”.
I’m also extremely happy that Theon has rediscovered (in an emotional sense, of course) his missing parts. Either that, or in GoT world, men are able to grow new ones.
Where did the dogs go during that fight? They just kind of disappeared.
Maybe they heard that Ramsay had some fresh meat for them back in Winterfell.
Ew.
I like how, even though Ramsay is already the most hateable character in this series, they keep giving us new reasons to hate him.
Joffrey was a pretty strong candidate, coupling abject cowardice with his bullying.
He has one very endearing characteristic – he’s dead.
But resurrection!
It would have been hilariously in the spirit of GoT if they’d started the season with a resurrection, but of Joffrey instead of Jon Snow.
And again.
Did he ever.
I don’t think it was an accident that this episode, almost entirely about steps towards returns to greatness from its strong women, also saw some redemption from the two male characters without penises.
We can eschew the spoiler tags here, right? Assumption being that if you enter this thread you’re up to date?
I was wondering about that. The spoiler tags seem to be trying to keep stuff from the books secret for those who’ve not read and intend to. It would be easier not to use them, so if you’re a future book person who would care about spoilers, speak now or forever hold your peace.
What if I just like clicking the button?
Yeah, the title pretty much demands current talk.
I really don’t like the Sand Snakes. At all.
I’m torn, because it seems whatever they’re planning will result in lots of action and high drama. However they annoy me because all of them are ignoring the fact that OBERON BROUGHT THIS SHIT ON HIMSELF!! If he hadn’t been shooting his mouth off and focused on the stabbing, the Mountain would be dead. I get it, you want to speak your piece to get the full measure of justice, but dammit man, pay attention!!! It’s hardly the Lannister’s fault he didn’t finish the job.
Plus I really liked Doran Martell, although much of that stems from the book Doran and less from the TV Doran.
Also, it is preposterous to ask us to believe that the Dorne citizenry is now seething to overthrow Doran because of his failure to avenge an event which happened 15 years ago.
That trial-by-combat made me think of this.
I thought that link would go to Harrison Ford’s best sick day.
The Dothraki version of the Spanish Inquisition sketch was one of my favorite moments.
Hah – I heard it as “What have the Romans ever done for us”.
And apropos
(though the out-take with the credits is … an odd choice)
I got Hodor.
OMG me too
Weird. Given the answers, I was surprised I ended up with The Red Witch.
I got Frodo.
SPOILER ALERT!
Do we think that Roose is trying to get Ramsay to kill Fat Walda, what with the constant talk of “well, if you don’t produce an heir with Sansa maybe she’ll have a boy?” What’s his play there? Is he just being sadistic?
My take is that he is just trying to keep Ramsay motivated. One of the scary things about Ramsay is that he’s actually pretty fking competent at whatever task he applies himself to. Roose seems to want to take advantage of this while also redirecting Ramsay from stuff that is counterproductively sadistic.
I agree with this, but I also wonder if Ramsey might eventually respond by preemptively killing Roose instead.
If he kills Roose, then he has to eliminate the baby too. His real problems down the road are Rickon and Sansa, but he may just want to firm up his grip on the Dreadfort.
Rounding into Derby form.
You and GM win the thread so far.
I’d tend to agree with you.
It’s a bit odd that Roose knew about Ramsay brutalizing Sansa, and allowed it to happen. Or, I should say, allowed it to happen before she produced an heir. You’d think he would want that prize fully protected until she had served her purpose. He had no way of knowing that Ramsay wouldn’t go too far and accidentally kill her, or that Sansa would get fed up and kill herself.
Roose might not be a psychotic like Ramsay, but he doesn’t seem to have a very enlightened view of marital relations either.
FK YEAH
Whocoodanode.
It would’ve actually been more GRRM-esque for him not to do that.
Absolutely – this is definitely a TV throw-the-fans-a-bone move, enabled by overtaking GRRM.
Will the books now diverge?
Nah, I think this was GRRM’s plan. You can’t always make the unexpected plot twist when you’re starting to wrap things up. There will be surprises, for sure, but plots should start consolidating, not fragmenting further.
The last books will mostly follow the TV script (if he finishes at all). This may not serve the book readers best. Sorry, readers.
Two down, one up.
So how did they recover Balon’s body for the funeral? Seems like it would have been swept out to see pretty quickly from that narrow channel.
And having established that the dragons were friendly with Missandei, why didn’t Tyrion take her with him to free them rather than Varys – or better yet, have her do the freeing.
Balon: because funeral scenes are dramatic, and apparently we are now supposed to care about who gets that throne.
Tyrion: because he’s a better actor than she is. But yes, the scene was dumb.
Not loving the start to this season yet.
Book spoiler: I knew Tyrion wasn’t getting roasted, but damn if I didn’t have Quentyn in the back of my mind watching that.
doctorK comment fail
There’s a book character I have not missed.
That’s exactly who I thought of. And I still cannot fathom this TV (and book) interest in the Ironborn while leaving out Quentyn and Young Griff. I was seriously hoping they’d leave the whole kingsmoot on the cutting room floor, but it seems that’s not to be.
It’s entirely possible that it did get swept out to sea then washed ashore again. But that did seem odd to me too.
And I think he only cared about whether the Dragons were willing to trust others besides Dany. Given his desire to have and be around dragons as a kid, he was probably hoping he could go down there, be safe, and maybe sway them to trust him. Not his brightest moment though.
Or, he knows that he too is secretly part-Targaryen.
Hmmm, maybe he does suspect that Tywin isn’t his daddy. Who is it then, the Mad King?
Yes, so the theory goes.
It’s a good theory. And Tyrion has the brains to put that sort of thing together.
Lyanna Stark sighting! And little Benjen, so cute…
Pre-Reek Theon kept referring to himself as the heir to the Iron Islands, as if he would just take over once Balon kicked it. But after Pops goes in the drink there’s no discussion of that kind of succession, just the Iowa caucuses with more drowning known as the Kingsmoot. Did Theon not understand the way things work since he spent so much time among the land lovers? Or just something GRRM hadn’t plotted out?
The GRRM apologists would tell you it’s the former, which means it’s most likely the latter.
He is legitimately heir to House Greyjoy, but not (necessarily) to the High Kingship of the Iron Islands.
Given that the alternatives are his sister and his banished uncle, he likely just have assumed that he’d be the only viable candidate.
Yeah, this is my take too. Wasn’t there something in the books about how the kingsmoot is generally a formality?
Like the Republican convention
Sure, but whose the banished uncle that killed Jeb!
#NeverEuron
Alternate thought. Prior to re-uniting with Daddy, he seemed to think he had a high standing among the Iron Islands and probably figured he’d be in good favor with him and utilize his father’s influence to gain it. After he meets up with Daddy, he’s not the same person. He suddenly feels he needs to make his name, etc. likely a result of him realizing he was being delusional.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Ramsay’s kind of a dumbass for doing what he did in full view of the maester, no? If anyone can get word out quickly to the other houses in the north, the Twins, the Wall, etc. it’s that guy. And sure, he doesn’t want to be flayed, but his days are numbered anyway knowing what he knows, and he can poison the crap out of Ramsay and Karstark if need be.
He’s crazy, not crazy-like-a-fox.
A maester with that sort of inclination likely poisons the crap out of Ramsay much sooner realizing that if Ramsay is next in line, he’s fucked. I don’t get the feeling the maester there is nearly as cunning which makes sense given that family.
Arya’s storyline is interesting as FK but like nothign is happening with it.
Thanks, and go As.
A girl is killing time while still collecting a paycheck.
Of the plot directions they could have chosen, giving Ramsey two new victims to torture feels a bit lazy.
I shed a tear for Shaggydog.
I’m super bummed because literally the only book 6 plotline I was truly looking forward to with optimism was Ser Davos’ hunt for Rickon.
The whole thing makes no sense. Especially since they are betraying the memory of Greatjon Umber, a great character and Robb’s righthand man.
I’m spoilering this because it may or may not be a spoiler from the books, but I’d love a book reader to clear this up for me: Was it only in the books, or also on TV that Gilly is taking Mance Rayder’s baby to safety (not her own child who is still back at the wall)? I’m mixing the two mediums and last night when they called the baby Sam I got confused about how the two plotlines differed.
Book: Not only did they swap Mance’s baby with Gilly’s, but they also swapped Mance for Tormond. I don’t remember any baby being born to Mance and wife in the TV series, and that is most definitely little Sam with Gilly. In the book, Gilly was disconsolate during the entire ship journey since her own baby was left behind, but last night seemed seemed pretty cheery, especially when looking at little Sam.
The TV baby is Gilly’s son and brother.
Ser Arthur Dayne was more ambidextrous than Pat Venditte. What a badass.
True, but not sure why “stabbing him in the back” is dishonorable in a pitched battle.
It’s not, but Ned Stark being Ned Stark probably thought it was.
Though he’s presumably the one who spread the story Bran knew, that he had defeated the Sword of the Morning in single combat.
Right, but I’m assuming that he did that in order to cover up what he felt was a shameful thing his buddy Howland did.
If he were hung up on the honor, wouldn’t he say that Howland had been the victor and just skipped over the stab in the back part?
I don’t think the crannogmen are known for their swordsmanship. They are more archers and guerrilla fighters, as I recall. Wouldn’t have been believable.
Also, he was proud along with honorable.
If I’m a betting man, one of these flashbacks is going to disclose Jon’s parent
They did give an explanation in one of the lasts two books, right? Was that misdirection, or rather the “book version” and now we’re going to get the TV version?
For Jon Snow? No, heavy foreshadowing (which is consistent with last episode’s fight scene) but no reveal.
OK What am I remembering about Ned Stark needing to cross some treacherous ground (in the Eyrie maybe) and a woman helping him make the journey and keeping him alive because she totally knows the terrain and people. She gets pregnant and he takes the baby to raise because he is so grateful. Am I completely losing my mind?!?
A Dance With Dragons relates a rumor that Ned knocked up the daughter of a fisherman who had schlepped Ned from the Vale to White Harbor (home of Lord “Too Fat to Sit a Horse” Manderly) in the early stages of the rebellion, when Ned was hiding from the forces of the Mad King.
It’s not presented as the truth, though, just a tale that was told in White Harbor. I wouldn’t say it is any more reliable than the rumor in Winterfell (believed by Catelyn) that Jon’s mother was Ashara Dayne, Ser Arthur Dayne’s widow, to whom Ned supposedly delivered Arthur’s sword after killing him.
Thanks for clearing that up. One of my problems is that I listened to all of these on audiobook while walking my dogs, and it’s so easy for my mind to wander a bit and particularly with all these characters, I can forget what I thought I knew. And now I also have a tendency to mix up what happened in the books to how they changed it for TV.
I may have gotten a lot of that wrong, tbh. That stuff is confusing.
Another thing that is weird is that I don’t know how to spell anything. I only know the audio pronunciations. I see online that Theon’s sister’s name is spelled Yara, but in the audiobook they pronounce it “Asha” so it’s very confusing.
And he insists on saying “Bry-een” instead of Bree-en, so that’s weird too.
They actually changed the name of Theon’s sister for the show because “Asha” would be too easily confused with “Osha” the wildling. In the show it’s Yara.
You’re blowing my mind.
Hodor!
Hodor.
Please tell me Tormund and Brienne is happening.so much for that confusion. :(
Right? I totally got his crushy vibe.
Makes SO much sense.
OK so this is a tech report thing–nevermoor. When I type two different comments in the same thread, it duplicates my text from the previous post. (Which is why my Tormund/Brienne comment appears here -the 2nd comment, and below-the first comment.) Does this happen to anyone else? I have to delete the text that I just posted from the comment box, and then type my new comment.
Yep, that happens for me too. But it might be a browser thing rather than a FK thing.
Happens to me too, I tried to fix it at some point but couldn’t find the WP box to clear.
It’s an issue with the way our AJAX plugin plays with the interface.
I chortled at Grand Maester Pycelle falling for the old “the person I am talking shit about is standing right behind me, isn’t he” sitcom trope.
But who farted?
Yeah, that was odd.
1. I always thought Davos was a bit dull, but he’s really growing on me. He’s getting some of the best dialog. I can’t decide if I want him to stay and hold down the fort at the wall, or go off with Jon to wherever he’s headed.
2. Aaaaaah not poor Rickon!!!! Not Shaggydog!!!!! It seems a bit convenient that all of Ramsay’s rivals are just neatly showing up and are easy to kill.
4. I am completely in love with the idea of Jon’s watch being over. I cannot wait to see what’s on his bucket list now that he’s freed from the oath of the watch. Obviously I want his first order of business to make Ramsay Snow die a slow and painful death. But I also reeeeeeeallyyy want him to reunite with Arya.
5. Given the show’s constant choice to linger excessively on nude Melisandre, I could have used a smidge more nekkid Jon Snow time before Davos swooped in with that coat.
6. I love the idea of Tyrion working on training those two dragons. Are we to assume they’re still in the dungeon, but free to move around without chains.
7. The scene with Greyworm talking about his patrols was hilarious.
Greyworm is not fun at parties.
Ramsey Bolton, kit designer.
Slim Goodbody!!
Please tell me Tormund and Brienne is happening.
Yes, I am totally ‘shipping Brienne with Tormund. She can civilize him, and he can liberate her.
or they’ll kill each other.
Thanks, and go As.
So the Wildlings and Knights of the Vale retake Winterfell; the Dothraki & Dragons combo re-takes the cities of Slaver’s Bay and this time they execute all the masters and put the government in the hands of the freed slaves; and then they all converge on King’s Landing, overthrow the Lannisters, install the Mother of Dragons on the Iron Throne and Sansa as Warden of the North, and everyone lives happily ever after. Right?
Very unlikely. I don’t think Slaver’s Bay gets solved. I do think Jon Snow retakes Winterfell (and probably this season). I don’t think he and Danerys cooperate to rule Westeros. I think they end up having a serious fire-mage v. dragon showdown (though, perhaps, interrupted by winter coming).
Nah, Bran will show up and point out that they’re cousins. And failing that, Tyrion will point out to Dany that the Stark family is known for their loyalty and that making nice with them is in her best interests. Since their brands of “ruling” are pretty peaceful and compatible, the likelihood for conflict seems pretty low.
Yeah – I was pushing it as a laughably unlikely outcome.
Well you, sir, are WRONG. It’s UNLIKELY.
Danerys inspires armies to swear fealty like it’s the easiest thing ever. It remains to be seen whether she can ever use this ability to accomplish anything.
Taking the slave cities was an accomplishment. It’s the politics necessary to hold and govern them she’s not so strong on (and retiring the dragons didn’t help).
When will she finally get the dragon horn?
Which is why she needs Tyrian to help her. Other than that (keeping him, not wiping out all Lanisters), you’re piece above looks about right, but makes way too much sense for them to do it that way. They’ll find some way to muddy it up further.
I’m worried for Tyrion. Other than being a popular character, I’m not sure why he needs to survive his current unauthorized dealmaking.
Aside from the possibility that they may be related? Dany needs someone who understands the politics of Westeros. And someone who knows a thing or two about actually ruling which Dany is pretty weak on.
Maybe, but consider that GRRM has never been about traditional fantasy where you assemble a perfect party and achieve great justice.
She’d be more interesting with the combined power of the formerly-slave soldiers and dothraki but with only tenuous political support.
The biggest unknown, though, is when the Walkers are going to invade, since that’ll be the major curveball. Almost certainly not before Dany gets to Westeros, but probably before she has much success there.
“…when the Walkers are going to invade.” This was my biggest complaint about last night. The evil caricature of Ramsey notwithstanding, I thought White Walker fear would motivate Jon Snow more than anything else.
I agree, but only in the sense that I thought he would say something like “We won’t stand against the walkers without Westeros behind us, so I’m going to deliver that”
Instead he did the sort of off-note “I don’t want to fight anymore” thing.
I think he’ll swing back around. He’s come to a point where he’s wondering wtf he’s even fighting for. There was honor in the Watch and the North once meant something to him. But that was all trashed. The man just got killed by his own guys and it soured him. He wanted no part in the Winterfell until Ramsey reminded him that he gave a shit about something. And now he’s motivated to act on it. The same thing will happen with the White Walkers, he’ll get a reminder and set to act on it.
I thought this was the best episode they’ve had in a long time. Really moved the plot forward in big ways (and ways that seem MUCH more interesting.) The weakest link is what is happening in King’s Landing. That plot line is super stale to me.
I loved the reunion between Jon and Sansa (although I would have preferred Jon and Arya.) The Slaver’s Bay thing will get much more interesting with the Dothraki involved. The Ironborn storyline is still a huge mystery to me. Why bother?
KL really is the weak link now. Cersei and Jamie have both become pretty boring.
Both in the book and in the show, I just can’t believe that the high sparrow and faith militant are such a formidable adversary that the Lannister’s hands are tied. Of course they are off balance because Tywin is dead and Tommen is suddenly king, but putting down this type of insurrection is the type of thing that a typical iron throne occupant would take care of before breakfast.
I’ve wondered the same about that. They only have power because they gave it to them. Then again, the Lanisters are now pretty weak in general and most of Westeros is fractured. Seems like it has some potential to get interesting now that they’re planning on acting. But even then, it seems pretty short lived.
I don’t think that Dothraki temple was up to fire code.
I know, right? Who doused that place with lighter fluid before they started the meeting?
Haven’t we seen enough of Ramsay being a psychopath by now to just stipulate to it and move on? I fast-forwarded that scene rather than endure it.
Sure, but that one was much more reasonable than most.
Except that it was a waste of a valuable source of information (eg. on Bran’s whereabouts).
Sure, but he isn’t smart, just reflexively cruel.
I dunno – I think he’s mostly been pretty smart (albeit psycho).
I think most of his intelligence has been a result of self preservation and not much more.
Ramsay in the show is a little too superhuman for me.
I hope Wun Wun picks him up by the ankle and holds him up like a pinata for everyone else to take turns smacking.
After which, he gets to be Ghost’s dinner.
Out of nowhere, Nymeria jumps in and chews his balls off.
I really want that wolf to come back.
In the books, it’s implied that she is still living, and leading a badass wolfpack around the Riverlands.
I know, but I prefer to think that she and Arya will reuinte and be happy ever after!
God bless Robin Arryn.
LF: [Transparent lie about Boltons kidnapping Sansa in the Vale and suggestion Yohn Royce tipped them off.]
RA: *not even looking away from falcon* PUSH HIM OUT THE MOON DOOR!
Also, that’s going to go well when the vale army joins up with Jon and his team. Littlefinger is going to have some serious explaining to do at Brienne’s swordpoint.
The trailer for next week showed Sansa confronting him about Ramsay.
I’d really enjoy watching him squirm, especially with Brienne in the room.
Thanks, and go As.
Clearly not taken at the CIA starbucks.
Just assign order numbers like other places do. No names offered, no names given.
LOLz
You ask the guy at the front of the line, not the back of the line. The guy in the front has likely waited longer. Oh our “senior” officials.
Daario’s talk about how Ser Jorah is too old to “ride the dragon” was pretty sleazy. He’s a delightful creep.
Can’t wait for that brawl. It’ll be interesting to see whether it ends up being a simple fight or whether it becomes political (e.g. Dany is in Westeros and the two are proxies for her foreign and local forces).
Or stone man vs. non-stone man
This is a good thought.
Jon Snow plays the scraggly northern hero (who kills Ramsay) forming an underfunded alliance that we root for instinctively. Dany plays the ultra-powerful ruler far too willing to use violence who gives lip service to doing good but really just likes a good grilling session. The Lannisters play the standing army caught between the two of ’em (perhaps with a broader southern alliance). As things hit the fan, the walkers invade. Only Dany can stop them (we know dragons are the trick there, not least because of the power of obsidian) but by then we all hate Dany. So WTF happens next?
man fuck this show.
Thanks, and go As.
Hodor hodor hodor
I thought the reveal and conclusion of Hodor was one of the best pieces of storytelling Game of Thrones has ever done.
So, basically Bran is the most important character in the show.
Thanks, and go As.
Well, sort of.
Because it doesn’t seem he can “change” the past in the sense of making things we have seen happen not happen. So you can spin off all kings of theories about how he is the source of any notable insanity (e.g. the Mad King), but he isn’t going to go back in time and save his dad or anything.
Also, not clear how much ability he’ll keep absent the three-eyed raven.
I don’t know about most important in the show, but clearly Bran is at least essential to any hope of defeating the White Walkers.
My wife has been complaining for a while about the north of the wall storyline because it is so disconnected from everything else (and they just dropped it for an entire season!). This episode was a reminder that the white walkers are the real existential threat.
@MikeV: Yeah, I think that Bran might be the single most important character, with strong competition from Dany. Also Arya is still a real wildcard. I can’t tell where her storyline is going…
Anyone have bets on how far south the white walkers get before the final climax? Do they make it to Kings Landing?
I bet the action ultimately centers around Winterfell, where the story started.
I don’t think the walkers are really a grand-campaign sort of enemy, but rather one that either wins or loses 100% and quickly. That said, I bet they break through the wall.
Yes.
Fired up for the return of the Blackfish!!!!!!!
This….this was a reply fail.
That was a great episode.
I’m starting get pissed though at how all of the direwolves are going out. Not a one of them has had a good death so far.
EDIT: Dammit!
Agreed. It becomes a case of wtf were their purpose of inclusion if this is all you’re using them for.
I was two weeks behind and watched three episodes yesterday, so belated…
SUUUUMMMMMEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!!
Gone too soon. You suck, Lord Edmure.
I wonder if he’s truly gone. We didn’t see the actual death etc etc.
Yeah, that was a lot of screen time for a dumb ending.
No way Ikea would charge that much for that product.
We’ve now had two Baby Benjen flashbacks, and Bran and Meera are not going to survive long without someone who knows his way around up there. Surely it’s time for him to reemerge…right?
Nope. The next big twist is for Bran to worg into the White Walker leader and take command of them, setting them on a collision course for the Mother of Dragons. Didn’t see that twist coming, did you.
So Benjen is obviously not really himself anymore after all he’s been through, but why wouldn’t he have ridden back down to Castle Black at some point to give the Night’s Watch some intelligence on the Walkers? He’s doing very little good just lurking around The Land of Always Winter or wherever they are. Just waiting around for Bran?
something something knows that Bran is the real key and the Night’s Watch can sit around shivving their Lord Commander for all he cares
Seemed like Benjen’s been working with/for the Three-Eyed Raven in some way. Maybe the Raven’s orders were more pressing.
I had to avoid this thread until now because, as I found out to my chagrin, HBO GO does not work in Israel. Someone offered me to download last Sunday’s episode (dubbed in Hebrew) but I declined (which was dumb).
Hodor.
הדר
I’m kind of over Khaleesi.
I’d like to be. If you know what I mean.
Thanks, and go As.
MikeV, Iron born.
How many ships you got?
Clearly the future antagonist.
I do hope so. She’s frighteningly powerful, possibly insane, consumed by revenge, and leading a weird cult of personality.
I like the fan theory that goes with that. Given the extensiveness of the books and the story, it would be quite genius. You root for her for so long only to realize holy shit, she’s all powerful and now she’s going to use it the wrong way.
She is the product of generations of strict in-breeding, her pops was a legendary nutcase/tyrant, and at least one of her brothers certainly would have been the same. The idea that she is going to turn out to be a sane, benevolent conquerer has been pretty dubious from the start.
Sure, but it’s also clear that Westeros is going to NEED her dragon fire. On pain of becoming a zombie continent.
@GM: Yes, Danyerys will keep declining in my estimation until she shows she can do something related to governing besides make a good speech.
Sure, but if she gives the Meerenese health care the waiting times for doctors will go through the roof.
Why Won’t
ObamaDanyerys Lead?her dragon came back.
I feel like the obvious next step in her story is that she goes and leads the dothraki to wreck fking shop on everybody.
Thanks, and go As.
I’m just getting tired of episodes ending with some dramatic moment where people are worshipping her. Also there was something corny about that scene. Needed a lot more Dothraki in the shot for it to be all that impressive.
If the Tyrells were really making a move on the Faith Militant, wouldn’t they have their star bannerman Randyll FKing Tarly leading the charge, ready to chop off sparrow heads with Heartsbane?
I call BS.
Just like Ser Arthur Dayne’s sword!
Swearengen!
Brotherhood cocksuckers!
I’m not ready to accept that those dudes were BWB. I’m going with random murderous protection racket for now.
I thought The Hound said they were Lord of Light-ers … am I misremembering?
Yeah, they definitely identified them as BWB and Lord of Light-ers. I guess it could be mistaken identity. Sandor was captured by Beric and Thoros several seasons back, so you would think that crew might recognize him.
It probably is them, under new management and further radicalized by the years of devastation of the Riverlands. But I’d rather it wasn’t them.
They said “the night is dark and full of terrors,” so they definitely purport to follow R’hllor.
I am definitely intrigued by the role GRRM has religion playing in his end game. Especially with the entry into Danerys’ circle from the new red magic woman we saw the previous ep. If Dany has a heel turn in her future, the evil-turning Lord of Light forces might play a role.
Lord of Light is also a useful affiliation for her if she is going to torch a bunch of white walkers.
I heard that he was going to be on this season, but expected him to last a bit longer than he did.
Yes. Just one episode of Ian McShane ain’t nearly enough.
Such a waste. His part wasn’t even that critical. It was a throw away at best. I hope this is one of those gonna be resurrected guys, otherwise, my god why even bother?
Swegen. Hang die.
I know I keep harping on the Ironborn, but really, what is the fking point? The show has so little time to tell the story, I just cannot fathom why they are giving the Ironborn so much screen time. Like Dany will think it’s a great idea to marry some lesser Westerosi lord. And how long would it take to build 1000 ships?
They start that storyline with the Sand Snakes, and then just forget about it, yet the stupid Greyjoys are all over the place.
And the House of Black and White. What a let down. The whole thing was so mysterious, so I was thinking well maybe when their purpose becomes clear, it will make sense why Arya is here and why it will be worth it for her to lose her identity and become “no one.” But now they are just assassins for hire and Arya was supposedly not “evolved” enough for their mission? I want Nymeria to rip that bob-haired girl’s face off.
Dinkledge is now completely wasted on this show.
I was not familiar with the actor who plays Bronn, so this was a surprise for me!
I think we have to wait-and-see whether the ironborn play a major role in the obviously-upcoming invasion of Westeros. Seems like they might.
B&W is basically a path towards Arya becoming a badass killer, which I suspect will be integral towards the plot going forward.
I continue to think Dany’s heel turn might be solidified by killing Tyrion. He seems the least essential of the major characters, just defied her, etc.
I guess they needed some way of getting Danerys her ships. And it will be amusing if there are two separate groups of Greyjoys vying to deliver a navy to her, since one or more likely both groups will simply have their ships taken and soldiers killed. But that’s an awful long way for GRRM to have give for a simple plot device.
At least the Ironborn are equal opportunity whore mongers. Enlightened.
Indeed.
Also, perhaps Theon will rediscover his, uh, manhood (not that one, of course) and become the leader of the Unsullied.
Was Theon ever anything other than a feckless dolt? I could not get past that thought while Yara was trying to coax him into growing a pair (so to speak).
I wouldn’t say he was feckless before. He was arrogant, entitled, and impetuous.
The top comment at the end of this io9 recap thread has an Arya theory which I find quite persuasive.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/if-you-give-peace-a-chance-on-game-of-thrones-you-ll-r-1780721168
Definitely an interesting one. The stuff about how she’d act with the money certainly rings true. I thought that a little odd in the moment that she’d suddenly act like a prima donna. Add in the fact that it would be pretty stupid to have that entire story line end with her being stabbed and, presumably killed, they’d need an out for why they’d stop going after her if she were to survive.
I think that’s a great theory. But I agree with one of the replies that I have no clue what the rules are for which faces can be “worn.” Do you have to be dead? Did you have to die at the hands (or in that death fountain) of the House of Black & White? I really wish they’d made that whole story line just a bit more clear. I feel confident that Arya is not dead.
Lyanna Mormont for Queen in the North.
#imwithher
Did I miss just what that tower that Sandor and co. were building was for? I’m assuming “gallows” is an off-label use.
Church, I thought.
That would make sense. Not exactly a high-traffic spot for it though.
I’ve been watching another show starring the actor playing Edmure Tully and it’s weirding me out.
The jaunty “everything’s coming up Arya” music just before she got stabbed was hilarious.
Best.App.Ever.
Good. I was getting kind of sick of the Waif.
I didn’t like this story. First, Arya recovered way too quickly from being gut-stabbed three times. Then she gets beat to hell in the chase. And then she’s able to beat the Waif who had always kicked her as before? Strains belief.
She jumped off that ledge, rolled down a bunch of stairs, knocked over a farmers market worth of fruit, and nobody batted an eye they were just like shit, better clean this stuff all up.
meanwhile a little girl fell out of the sky and was bleeding on the steps.
wat.
Thanks, and go As.
I agree it was completely unbelievable and I’m typically pretty willing to suspend my disbelief for the purpose of a good story line. I think they could have fixed it with just a few “the student becomes the master” moments in the training montages, so that you felt like what the Waif had going for her was the element of surprise by wearing a different face, but not that she had so much more fighting skill than Arya. And if they had made Arya’s initial injury much less severe.
That being said, I LOVED the way it resolved. I was never on board with her becoming no one and living her life out in their service. Aray being Arya is intrinsic to her nature and her personal cause. It just never made sense. I’m thrilled that she is finally out of the House of Black and White and heading home. Now to reunite with Nymeria…
I was really digging the “it was really Jaquen” analysis, so that was too bad.
I liked his reaction to her last line though.
Had that analysis turned out true, it would have been the that chase and fight sequence make a whole lot more sense. Either Arya wouldn’t have been hurt or Jaquen could have kicked her ass in the dark.
The showrunners seemed to have two goals here (1) ending the Arya in Braavos story somehow, and (2) figuring out who would win a fight between Jason Bourne and the T-1000.
Mission accomplished on both counts.
And then she’s walking all normal when she leaves the House of Black and White. She has unbreakable legs, apparently.
However, her winning the fight makes sense. She’s been training blind, the Waif hasn’t. So once she put the light out, she had the edge.
I would have thought that particular training was part of everyone there’s training and not just something she subjected Arya to just to be a bitch.
I’m just so glad the Hound is back in my life.
Because you enjoy watching him whip it out to pee?
Entertainment is where you can find it.
Fun thing I just read: for next week’s Battle of the Bastards, the producers broke the 500 extras into Snow and Bolton teams and trained them totally separately, to foster rivalry.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/a-lot-of-people-were-involved-in-making-game-of-thrones-1782089474
1. Littlefinger actually comes through for once.
2. Seven hells that may have been the bloodiest thing I’ve seen ever.
3. Ramsay
BoltonSnow, dog shit.4. This episode took two shots of Crown Royal to get through.
5. I’m bombed.
That episode made up for the mehness of the last few. I just wish #3 were a little more involved. He deserves far far more. May be the best episode of the series.
I found it disappointingly predictable, though I do appreciate that they finally deliver a terrible death to Ramsay. It was clear at least two episodes ago that Jon was going to attack Winterfell with his wildling army and would be losing the battle until Littlefinger shows up with the knights of the Vale. There was a brief moment during the battle when I started to wonder if they would actually let Ramsay win the battle, kill all the Starks, and then get his comeuppance from the Night King’s army of the dead (who would you root for in that battle??)
the meteor
Thanks, and go As.
Kinda like Red Sox/Yankees.
At least in the GOT case there’s a situation in which both teams can actually lose.
6. Where is Ghost??!!
Yeah, what the hell?
Dammit I wanted Wun Wun to become Castellan of Winterfell :(
I loved how when the army of the Eyrie came charging around the corner their banners looked like the logo of a 1960’s airline.
Pan-Eastern Airlines to the rescue!
And the cheerful look on that giant dog’s face after he licked some of the blood off Ramsay’s chin. He looked like he just found the world’s biggest tennis ball.
I said out loud at the time, “My, that’s a tasty one”.
I was hoping for Ghost to do the deed, though.
That was crazy.
I won’t comment until 10 pm, but HOLY SHIT
And the worst thing is, we’ve gotta wait another 42 weeks (or so) until the next one.
eh, it felt like all the expected stuff. Just a whole ton of it, all crammed into one episode.
I realize that they do have to wrap the series up in the next two seasons (and I think they said that they will be short seasons), but my favorite part of GoT is the way that it would always brutally crush our hopes for how the plot will unfold. I guess there is still time for more of that next season.
This is exactly how I feel. Much-needed plot advancement, and entertaining for sure, but sadly short on much unexpected.
This entire season has been very meh. But it all seems like the movement of necessary pieces in the middle of the greater Westeros chess game. All the pieces seem to be in place now to start the next season, so here’s hoping.
There’s been a lot of commentary on the show setting the plot now it has outpaced the books, but this episode really made me think how far the fan-boards have equally outpaced the show. Very pretty and superficially gratifying, but the element of surprise – that jolting revision of all my hopes and expectations – is missed.
OK i watched it but I don’t get some if it. Cliffs notes please?
What was up with the green shit blowing up the church or whatever? Is Cersei in charge of things again?
Thanks, and go As.
There are barrels and barrels of wildfire under King’s Landing, put there by the Mad King (Daenarys’ father). That’s where Tyrion got the wildfire that he used to blow up Stannis’ ships in the Battle of the Blackwater. It also came up one or two episodes ago in a conversation between Tyrion and Dany, when he convinces her to not just destroy the cities of Slaver’s Bay with her dragons because destroying an entire city is something only her crazy father would do.
After Tommen killed himself, there is no longer any obvious succession for the Iron Throne. All of the clergy died when the Sept of Baelor exploded, so that contributes further to the power vacuum. I’m sure that it’s very irregular for the king’s mother to take over, but who is going to stop her?
Especially with Zombie Mountain backing her up.
I waited 10 days to catch up on the last 2 episodes before coming into this thread and I’m damned if I’m going to use spoil tags!
Tyrion commandeered all the wildfire for the Battle of the Blackwater, so the pyromancers must have been busy working for Cersei again.
Yeah, this occurred to me too. I just sort of assumed that there was still leftover wildfire, but those barrels are getting into deus ex machina territory.
Did he commandeer all of it? My understanding is that Aerys’s pyromancers had hidden stashes all over the city that T and co. didn’t necessarily know about. It would make sense that he had the sept rigged up to blow.
My understanding was that Tyrion found a stash. When they showed it, it was in some sort of a cellar. When they discussed that the rumors were true, I assumed that not only did they have that stash that Tyrion found, but they also had it set up all over the city as well.
Game of Threads, you say?
I want a knockoff of Cersei’s dress for Raider games.
Holy crap that would be badass, please do this.
Having seen this episode twice now (and partially a third because I wanted to watch Baelor’s blow up), here are a few observations:
1. I agree there was a lack of the surprise-factor. I still loved it.
2. The music score during the Baelor scene was superb, especially the frenetic strings underscoring Lancel’s desperate attempt to get to the wildfire in time.
3. I appreciate the showrunners’ attempt to fix the Dorne subplot, especially since they avoided slaughtering us with the boring, insufferable characters from the book. Olenna telling the Sand Snakes to STFU was especially satisfying.
4. Hopefully they will dispense of the Ironborn with some epic naval battle early next season.
5. Varys sure made his way from Dorne to Meereen in a flash, in a twinkling of an eye.
6. Cersei is well on her way to becoming the Mad Queen. Jamie looked, shall we say, somewhat less than pleased.
7. Lyanna Mormont is FKing badass.
5. I thought that very very odd myself.
6. I suspect she dies early on when Dany arrives at King’s Landing next season. At least too early to become the Mad Queen. Dany likely becomes the Mad Queen by season’s end.
7. Hell yeah. That little actress is very impressive.
2. The score for that episode on the whole was amazing.
1. WHERE THE FUCK IS GHOST??!!
2. I’m pretty sure Dany will be sending a raven to fetch Dhario damn quick. There’s no one left for her to marry. Except Jon, who’s what, technically her nephew? Or Jaimie, which would actually be a pretty sick burn on Cersei, but I don’t see him ever moving on, no matter how cray she gets. (Although it the book he seemed pretty damn over it, no?)
3. I loved the Arya scene. Glad to see she’s back to crossing off names. I hope she heads to Winterfell–I really want that reunion with Jon.
4. I love Lyanna Mormont.
5. I really did not expect the bloodbath of episode 10. I thought episode 9 was all we’d get and then 10 would be less bloody and more setting up the relationships for next season.
2. Given Targaryen predilections, Jon being a nephew might be a feature not a bug.
2. No one left for her to marry. Um, what about Tyrion?
That is true. Man that would put Cercei’s panties in a bunch.
Next season needs moar Sam. And Gilly sure did get a south-of-the-wall makeover!
Unless Ned Stark hid Jon’s real identity and some anti-bastard recognition in that library, I just don’t see the point of Sam’s story line.
The point is he’s adorable! He’s like Bronn. You just need him around.
He could be elsewhere.
He’s going to figure out how to defeat the Others in there maybe? That’s what he was working on in Castle Black’s crappy library. Now he’s got the whole Westerosi internet at his disposal.
I’m at a loss for Sam’s story line too. Being in the south, I guess he will be one of the first characters to encounter Dany if she lands in Dorne and starts her conquering from that direction?
Smart of Arya to grab at least one spare face on her way out of the House of Black and White.
I thought about that, but maybe you don’t really need to have them, maybe they just appear? In the book it seemed like you needed a physical one at the ready, but in the show, when Jaqen gave Arya the coin, he turned around and went from young hottie to older non-hottie, he just seemed to magically change faces.
So you don’t need someone to become no-one?
I understood the library of faces in the HoB&W as offerings and takings, but as you say that can’t be the only way to change – he also changed back into JH for Arya at the door to the HoB&W, and though we never saw his actual execution of Arya’s three requests a change of face would undoubtedly have helped.
Knowing what they now, and having been through what they’ve been through, I’d like Rob and Sansa to be smarter. She should have told Littlefinger never to speak ill of her brother to her; he should have repeated the truth that Sansa won the battle, and she’s the Queen in the North.
Meanwhile the finale will be between the houses of Daenerys Targaryen, Cersei Lannister, Sansa Stark, Yara Greyjoy, Ellaria Martell, Oleanna Tyrell … and Robin Arryn!
It’s not clear to me whether Sansa was unhappy with Jon as King in the North or not.
Also don’t forget the Jon Snow wing of House Targaryen. Very interested to see how he and Dany get on together.
Only Bran (among the living) knows Jon’s true parentage, so for all intents and purposes he’s still a Snow.
His military career is also pretty inauspicious – doomed his posse first time north of the wall, killed by his men at Castle Black, and got his army slaughtered at the Battle of the Bastards (till Sansa saved them).
Sansa as Queen – with Jon as her general – carries both the North and the Vale with her.
And of course he’s the only matrimonial alliance worth making for Daenerys, which leads to a Queens’ Federation between the North/Vale (with Sansa making Robin her consort), The Iron Islands, Dorne, and the Iron Throne-led remainder.
If R+L=J is true, can Jon marry Daenerys? That’s his Aunt, if true, albeit an Aunt who is roughly the same age as him.
Thanks, and go As.
If/when Bran makes it back alive, he will have the best claim on Winterfell, and would also be a useful husband for Dany, wizard status aside.
He’s the 3-eyed raven, not a lover or a fighter!
I say Sansa at some point gets Robin to send Littlefinger out the moon door.
If so, I hope Littlefinger grabs Robin’s ankle on the way down.
I was kind of hoping Sansa would convince Robin that it might be fun to try it out himself.
http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/got-connections-ned-promise-tower-of-joy-infographic
Thanks, and go As.
I always liked Ned Stark, but now I think he’s sort of a dick. I get him not blabbing around to the entire world the parentage of Jon, but why not tell Caitlin at least. She was loyal to him for years after thinking he was a cheating shitheel, Did he think she’d betray him or Jon given the truth? And it would have not only made their relationship less contentious, but also a better life for Jon. Instead of him being the shunted bastard, he would have been the welcomed bastard. The fact that he allowed him to go off to the wall at what, 13 or 14, instead of divulging who he was so that Caitlin would let him stay at Winterfell. What the hell? That is some cold shit.
Cause if he was a ‘welcomed bastard’ people would likely infer something was up, which would have probably made King Robert question stuff.
This basically means zero possibility of Dany/Jon hooking up, too.
Thanks, and go As.
King Robert didn’t seem like the sharpest tool in the box. I don’t think questioning was in his wheelhouse.
But I get your point that other people might have thought it strange/unbelievable. Still, seems like a dick move to have Jon’s life turn out as it did. Winding up at the wall is a really shitty outcome, and Ned knew that, but rather than say hey Caitlin, Jon gets to stay here and here’s why, he just throws up his hands and says “I love you Jon, now go to the wall and maybe some day I’ll tell you who your mom is.” WHEN IT IS TOO LATE AND YOU’VE ALREADY TAKEN THAT CRAP VOW.
One difference that has been particularly noticeable this season, having overtaken the books, is how quickly and straightforwardly people get from A to B. We see them set out, and the next time we see them they’re arriving at their destination. What happened to all of the random shit that used to happen en route that diverted the best laid plans?
Well… the plot decided it had to move
This is very true. I wonder how much of it is that they are shortening the last two seasons to just 13 episodes combined? They feel like they have less time to meander through the twists and turns?
In some cases it was a blessing, like I was not looking forward to Brienne and Sansa slogging through the snow for three episodes getting to the wall. It was such a breath of fresh air when they just showed up one episode later. Then again, I am curious to know how Arya made it to the twins.
Which raises a question of why they’re shortening it. Sure it’s hellish expensive to make, but presumably it’s still making a healthy profit for HBO.
And if you really want to save money, the whole interlude with Swearengen and the Hound was a complete waste.
I totally agree. I cannot fathom why they’d want to shorten it.