There is no fucking 3B: RCDS 111709 ← FREE KRAUT!

There is no fucking 3B: RCDS 111709 139

17 Nov 2009  |  monkeyball  |The Grill

BOGUS

  1. Sam Waterston has really let himself go.
  2. I presume that these folks were headed in this direction
  3. Seeing Jena Malone do a nude scene makes me feel older than I can even express.
  4. Neyer agrees with andeux (see here for why this is in BOGUS)
  5. How are you going to feel when it’s your daughter that’s kidnapped at school by a terrorist?
  6. The government is Roman Polanski
  7. Christ, what a Jauss Rogue

AWESOME

  1. Someone really needs to start a baseball blog called You must not eat bats
  2. the Official-Baseball-Awards-Are-Awarded-Amid-The-Bitter-Protests-and-Feigned-Indifference-From-The-Internet season
  3. There is no fucking 3B. So how about Hinske or Gotay on the cheap?

139 thoughts on “There is no fucking 3B: RCDS 111709”

  1. nevermoor Nov 17,2009 11:06 am

    Re 5: Yup, we’ve crossed that line too.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  2. nevermoor Nov 17,2009 11:07 am

    Re 6: Weren’t conservatives attacking the government for bringing Polanski back for trial? (I may be wrong about that). Either way, it’s a hell of a lot more than either Bush did.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:20 am || Up

      Society swell-type conservatives were sniffing about the indignities visited upon the man, but the red-meat (self-styled) hoi polloi bloggers started right in on the “depraved Hollywood liberals” argument for why, given who was defending him, “we” should prosecute/extradite.

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 11:21 am || Up

        Makes sense. I agree with the red-meat types (as does the DOJ). I’ll expect them to acknowledge that in their next lifetime.

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:25 am || Up

          Well, except that they’re arguing in bad faith — really, the only reason they gave a shit was because Alec Baldwin (synecdochally speaking) was against it.

          you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
          • salb918 Nov 17,2009 11:31 am || Up

            Jesus, mb, does anyone in the whole world ever argue in good faith according to you?

            • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:35 am || Up

              1. Not the “conservatives” whose arguments are linked most frequently hereabouts, anyway, no.

              2. Mostly, though, I deploy the “argument from bad faith argument” to see how far I have to yank nm’s and mk’s chains to get them to respond.

              you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
              • salb918 Nov 17,2009 11:36 am || Up

                This includes all the red-meat self-styled hoi polloi bloggers?

                • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:45 am || Up

                  I’m thinking specifically of Red State and Big Hollywood.

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
  3. andeux Nov 17,2009 11:09 am

    Hinske is an interesting idea. CHONE says 0.245/0.338/0.432, which is a little better than Beltre or Tejada, and only a hair worse than Thome.

    The issue is his defense. Your link says “UZR rates Hinske as an average to slightly above defender in the field,” but that seems to be as an OF. At 3B, fangraphs’ UZR has him at -5 runs/year, and Chone projected him at -10 as a 3B for last year. I could still live with that, I guess, as it’s still better than the other obvious short-term alternatives.

    TINSTAAFK
    • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:18 am || Up

      Yeah, I figgered that was re his OF d.

      Any thoughts on Gotay? I mean, Hisnke should be cheap, but Gotay would be, for all intents and purposes, free.

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • andeux Nov 17,2009 11:31 am || Up

        Also interesting, I guess. CHONE says 0.259/0.369/0.392 (in Arizona), and had him at -7 defensively last year. Nothing to get excited about after the park and league adjustment, but as Cameron points out he’s still young, so there may be a wider variance around that projection.

        TINSTAAFK
    • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:26 am || Up

      I love me some Jim Thome, but he’d be one of the more pointless acquisitions possible.

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
  4. nevermoor Nov 17,2009 11:10 am

    Re A1: Meh, there’s a lot of things that sound funny in there. Plus, eating bats is a bad idea, so God wins this round.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • andeux Nov 17,2009 11:14 am || Up

      God Hates Shrimp
      (I’m allergic. God wins again!)

      TINSTAAFK
      • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:16 am || Up

        So that’s why you refuse to shake Sal’s hand.

        you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 11:27 am || Up

        I feel comfortable treating all of those rules as once-good, now unnecessary, suggestions for people far differently situated than we are.

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  5. nevermoor Nov 17,2009 11:15 am

    Re A3(b): “the total package seems to get the job done.” = TWSS

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  6. nevermoor Nov 17,2009 11:17 am

    Re A3(c): how does that park adjust to Oakland? 429 OBP, in and of itself, is OMG-sexy.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • mikeA Nov 17,2009 12:11 pm || Up

      Neutral mle is .220/.345/.346 for last year.

      • mikeA Nov 17,2009 12:16 pm || Up

        And actually that oversells it, because minor league splits doesn’t use a park factor for Reno, which is of course in the mountains… CHONE probably also didn’t use a park factor. CHONE also projects a very high BB% that is much higher than his career average in the minors.

        I’d maybe go for it anyway, though…

        • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 12:20 pm || Up

          I CHONE’d a man in Reno/Just to watch Gotay

          you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
        • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 12:30 pm || Up

          For free, why not?

          Of course, he looks like a H2N3 with less glove.

          "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  7. monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:31 am
    you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
    • salb918 Nov 17,2009 11:35 am || Up

      I don’t know much about Werner Herzog, but I liked Grizzly Man. (But then, I absolutely loved Project Grizzly, so maybe I just have a thing for bears.

      • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 11:44 am || Up

        TWASS

        you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • mk Nov 17,2009 12:38 pm || Up

        I don’t know much about Werner Herzog

        8. Related, but more practical subjects, will be the art of lockpicking. Traveling on foot. The exhilaration of being shot at unsuccessfully. The athletic side of filmmaking. The creation of your own shooting permits. The neutralization of bureaucracy. Guerrilla tactics. Self reliance.

        9. Censorship will be enforced. There will be no talk of shamans, of yoga classes, nutritional values, herbal teas, discovering your Boundaries, and Inner Growth.

        11. Follow your vision. Form secretive Rogue Cells everywhere. At the same time, be not afraid of solitude.

        (link)

  8. salb918 Nov 17,2009 11:54 am

    Grienke wins Cy Young.

    • andeux Nov 17,2009 12:10 pm || Up

      <feigns indifference>

      TINSTAAFK
      • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 12:15 pm || Up

        < protests bitterly >

        you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
    • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 12:12 pm || Up

      Wow. Good for the voters.

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  9. monkeyball Nov 17,2009 12:41 pm
    you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
  10. mikeA Nov 17,2009 12:50 pm

    My sense from having looked around the basketball saber blogs from time to time is that Dave Berri of wages of wins is completely full and shit and doesn’t know what he’s doing.

    Anyway, in Gladwell’s ad hominem response to Pinker, who called him on his bullshit, I find this (keep in mind the relevant quote from the prior Gladwell article: “In fact, Berri and Simmons found no connection between where a quarterback was taken in the draft—that is, how highly he was rated on the basis of his college performance—and how well he played in the pros.”

    In one of my essays, I wrote that the position a quarterback is taken in the college draft is not a reliable indicator of his performance as a professional. That was based on the work of the academic economists David Berri and Rob Simmons, who, in a paper published the Journal of Productivity Analysis, analyze forty years of National Football League data. Their conclusion was that the relation between aggregate quarterback performance and draft position was weak. Further, when they looked at per-play performance—in other words, when they adjusted for the fact that highly drafted quarterbacks are more likely to play more downs—they found that quarterbacks taken in positions 11 through 90 in the draft actually slightly outplay those more highly paid and lauded players taken in the draft’s top ten positions. I found this analysis fascinating. Pinker did not. This quarterback argument, he wrote, “is simply not true.”

    Could this have been as mind-bogglingly stupid as it looks? I think so…

    • salb918 Nov 17,2009 12:53 pm || Up

      I went to a panel discussion featuring Mark Cuban, who also thought wages of wins was total bullshit. I haven’t read it, nor do I know anything about basketball and football (or Mark Cuban for that matter), but there you go.

      • mikeA Nov 17,2009 12:59 pm || Up

        You don’t have to know anything about football to see how idiotic this argument is…

    • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 12:54 pm || Up

      Who did what to whose chicken?

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • Leopold Bloom Nov 17,2009 9:06 pm || Up

        Them chickens ain’t nothin’ but liars.

    • andeux Nov 17,2009 1:23 pm || Up

      I’d note that:
      1) Aggregating 40 years of data is highly problematic given how much football and in particular the QB position has changed.
      2) The actual results (pos. 1-10 vs. 11-90) are a hell of a lot weaker (and involve an arbitrary line) than the original claim of “no connection between where a quarterback was taken in the draft.” The draft goes 7 rounds (224 positions), and used to go something like twice that.
      3) There are probably sample size issues with respect to the first group.
      4) There are selection bias issues when converting to a per-play basis that probably completely explain the latter results: QBs drafted later might only get playing time if they perform well, while Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell will keep their jobs for a while no matter how awful they are.

      But I might still be missing the mind-bogglingly stupid part.

      TINSTAAFK
      • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 1:30 pm || Up

        4 is what I thought he meant.

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • mikeA Nov 17,2009 1:37 pm || Up

        The mind-bogglingly stupid part is #4. It is along the lines of something like studying mlb players drafted in the 1st round vs. the 5th round as using average career mlb wOBA as the measure and not including anyone who didn’t reach the majors…

        • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 1:40 pm || Up

          Or, to make it even more concrete, arguing that players drafted after the 15th round are the best because of results that are (dramatically) skewed by Piazza/Pujols/everyone else not making MLB.

          "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
          • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 6:01 pm || Up

            {snerk}

            (dramatically) skewed by Piazza

            you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • green star oakland Nov 17,2009 1:41 pm || Up

        Disclaimer: I know nothing about (American) football.

        The metric for QB performance presumably also depends on others on the team (offensive linemen, wide receivers, …), so if the top 10 picks are taken by the bottom 10 teams won’t that have an impact on their subsequent “performance”? And the converse too, since presumably these top-ranked QBs come from the best college programs.

        If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
        • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 2:17 pm || Up

          Yes. Plus, it’s a hard transition and good teams tend to give you a few years on the bench (see, e.g., Alex Smith looking like a QB now vs. Alex Smith looking like crap two years ago).

          "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 2:31 pm || Up

      Berri’s totally full of it.

      az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
    • mk Nov 17,2009 6:47 pm || Up

      I thought I’d read something recently about Gladwell piquing Pinker, but it turns out it was Posner he piqued, not Pinker:

      In The New Republic, Richard Posner jeered that Blink “is written like a book intended for people who do not read books.” But that’s not quite right: Blink appears to have been written not for people who don’t read books but for people who read only books that spend years on the bestseller lists, books you can talk about with your boss or buy in bulk for the marketing department.

    • mikeA Nov 18,2009 10:38 am || Up

      Here is an actual non-crazy study, which of course shows that QBs drafted in the first round are better than the 2nd who are better than the third, etc.

    • mk Nov 23,2009 6:56 am || Up

      Addendum —

      Gladwell-bashing is always good fish-in-a-barrel fun, but surely there is some truth to this:

      I can’t also help but wonder what would prompt the Times to haul out the heavy gun that is Pinker to shoot down a collection of magazine miscellany. I should add here that my hatred of Gladwell is boundless, at least the equal of any critic, but I, a much more rigorous (and therefore slower and much poorer) writer, at least know its source – pure unadulterated jealousy.

      Gladwell’s earlier books The Tipping Point, Blink, and Outliers have been publishing phenomena. Tipping Point alone has been on bestseller lists for five years. Gladwell in many ways is the social science equivalent of the New York Times foreign affairs columnist Tom Friedman, another favorite target of critics whose books sell huge numbers. Both are popularizers, in some sense hucksters, adept at phrase-making and simplifying (and often over-simplifying) complex subjects. A key difference, however, is that when Friedman is wrong, he helps start wars. When Gladwell makes a mistake, he dilutes public understanding of science – not a good thing, surely, but he’s a feature writer; that’s what they do.

      There is plenty of reason to criticize Malcolm Gladwell, but you get the sense that his chief flaw is being popular.

      • monkeyball Nov 23,2009 8:03 am || Up

        Gladwell: the Derek Jeter of feature writers

        you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
        • green star oakland Nov 23,2009 9:39 am || Up

          Does that mean he’ll be working on his plays to the left in the off-season?

          If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
  11. nevermoor Nov 17,2009 3:59 pm

    Ezra’s on a roll. Honestly, I don’t understand why this doesn’t appeal to more red-meat types (on the assumption that not all of them are bad-faith).

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 4:53 pm || Up

      Ezrasm.

      I expressed the same incredulity the other day — I had presumed that the only people espousing this were acting in bad faith/being utterly cynical, but I’m coming to realize that THE FUCKING MORONS ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT.

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
    • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 5:26 pm || Up

      [edit] I think I might disagree with some of that.

      az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
      • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 5:50 pm || Up

        I respectfully beg to differ. (Boy, did I like my parenthetic, though.)

        you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
        • mikeA Nov 17,2009 5:56 pm || Up

          1) given the current state of things, even the most liberal of judges is going to grant the government huge leeway in sealing/limiting state secrets

          In which case, doesn’t it turn into more of a charade, due process-wise, and isn’t not making it a charade basically the whole point?

          • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 5:57 pm || Up

            That’s a very good point.

            you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
          • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 6:15 pm || Up

            This is sort of like the concern I mentioned a thread or two ago. I can’t imagine that we’ll get anything like a charade (i.e. kangaroo court) but we will certainly get an OJ-esque circus.

            The bigger risk, IMO is bad law coming out of the trial.

            "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 6:18 pm || Up

          I never implied that we needed a confession to convict. I was responding to the Eviatar quote which seemed to imply that the defendants would be their own worst enemy in the trial. Perhaps I misread it. But if I didn’t, I think that’s a load of crap.

          And I think that Klein simplified the issue too much. I doubt people really fear that KSM will somehow get away from this. Dumbing it down to the “He’s not Magneto” point is childish and misses the mark. It also shows contempt towards those who fear some kind of intelligence leak, as well as New Yorkers who don’t want the trials there. In a left-leaning state, 45 percent of people approving the trials doesn’t seem to be an Earth shattering majority.

          With a federal trial, we’re basically trying to take moral high ground with people that would just as soon kill us before caring what other people think about them. That’s not to say that we should just kill them–just that we seem to be bending over backwards to accommodate them.

          I don’t think that New Yorkers will go easy on them. I understand that guilty verdicts have come from about 91% of terror trials in the US, with much of the remaining 9% still remaining in custody after the trials.

          I am of the opinion that suspected non-citizen terrorists are not to be handled the same as citizens. Their crimes should be handled by a military tribunal. That’s my opinion. If that makes me a f$&%ing moron, then so be it.

          az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
          • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 6:22 pm || Up

            Which is to say that I probably have an irrational fear of terrorism.

            Wait, is that possible?

            az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
            • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 6:30 pm || Up

              Given the astronomically low odds of being subject to a terrorist attack, yes.

              And now while we’re on that subject (and this isn’t directed at you … necessarily), a big FKFY to all the people who live in Red States and (a) regularly decried the perversions and wickedness of Blue States, liberals, and Urban Hellholes (to use Atrios’ term) in Talibanian terms, and (b) get all quivery and fearful when discussing terrorism.

              THE ONLY PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BOMBING RED STATES ARE KRAZY KRISTIAN TERRORISTS. AL QAEDA TARGETED LIBERALS AND LIBERAL VALUES.

              you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
              • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 6:39 pm || Up

                As far as fear of terrorism is concerned–yeah, you’re right, of course. But the fact that it’s terrorism, meant to instill fear, makes me wonder if THE TERRORISTS ARE WINNING.

                az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
                • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 6:53 pm || Up

                  They are when people freak out about treating them like criminals.

                  Any foreign national who commits regular murder in NYC would be tried in NYC. I don’t see why we have to buy into the exceptionalism of these guys.

                  JL is right, of course, that no one is saying they’re Magneto, but there are people expressing fear about physical detention (no on escapes from max prisons any more).

                  Why can’t we just treat criminals like criminals?

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • salb918 Nov 17,2009 8:03 pm || Up

                  Because terrorism, especially by foreign nationals, is a different type of crime, and it elicits a different type of fear than other crimes. Maybe the rest of the country doesn’t have as enlightened a view as you do, but at least *try* to put yourself in other peopeles’ shoes.

                • monkeyball Nov 18,2009 2:31 am || Up

                  I’m sorry, but this is really stupid.

                  Yeah, terrorism is a different type of crime — it’s designed to make you scared. The entire argument in favor its special status is predicated on letting it work as its practitioners intended. And insofar as any terrorism is capital-P Political in terms of trying to destroy/tear down/alter any existing political structures, the only way it can achieve its ends is … if it inspires enough fear in its targets so that the targets tear down their own political structures.

                  (Going off in another direction entirely, rape and child abuse are different types of crime, too [especially by foreign nationals!] in their emotional impact on the victims and society at large. Shall we establish different standards and procedures for those? Heck, I’d argue that abuse of authority by local police across the country is worse than my counter-examples or your example. I’d be all for a military tribunal for Mehserle.)

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
                • JediLeroy Nov 18,2009 4:57 am || Up

                  A bit harsh, eh?

                  az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
                • nevermoor Nov 18,2009 8:59 am || Up

                  That’s just it, it’s not a different kind of crime. Its psycopathic mass murder. As MB says, the rest is their propaganda.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • mikeA Nov 18,2009 9:33 am || Up

                  “They” are not really psycopathic mass murderers in the sense that people who go on shooting sprees are. “They” are also generally speaking not “crazy” except to the extent that a large percentage of humans on earth who have crazy beliefs are crazy. They have a political program. They believe it. And it’s not even just nihilism (they have an ethos…) I’m not sure what you are suggesting by propaganda. Certainly they think it’s a holy war.

                • monkeyball Nov 18,2009 10:07 am || Up

                  I disagree pretty strongly with this. You look at the demographics of suicide bombers, terrorists, etc., and I think there’s a pretty good overlap with your typical psycho/sociopath spree killer/mass murderer. There’s something sick in a lot of guys in their late teens/twenties that is susceptible to being triggered — by, yes, a KSM or a whatsisface who mentored his son into doing the DC Sniper shit … or a Randall Terry, or an Eldridge Cleaver.

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
                • mikeA Nov 18,2009 10:27 am || Up

                  I don’t necessarily disagree with that, but I don’t think it makes sense to focus on that to the complete exclusion of political content in these cases. And of course you’re admitting that the triggerers are not psycopathic mass murderers in the relevant sense. Lots of these groups have lots of members. They are not all psycopaths.

                • nevermoor Nov 18,2009 10:55 am || Up

                  Of course they have an ethos. It’s an utterly invalid one. Treating them like enemy combatants is to validate their story. Treating them like common criminals is to invalidate it. The choice is easy.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • mikeA Nov 18,2009 11:10 am || Up

                  what does “invalid” mean?

                • nevermoor Nov 18,2009 11:38 am || Up

                  Not recognized as a justification for violence.

                  I.e. killing during a war is valid.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • monkeyball Nov 18,2009 12:58 pm || Up

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
                • mikeA Nov 18,2009 9:37 am || Up

                  it elicits a different type of fear

                  So what? If we’re arguing about policies, what relevance does that have?

                  Maybe the rest of the country doesn’t have as enlightened a view as you do, but at least *try* to put yourself in other peopeles’ shoes.

                  Who cares how people feel about it? People feel all sorts of crazy ways about stuff. That does not present any answer to “why can’t we just treat criminals like criminals,” which question has various plausible answers.

              • salb918 Nov 17,2009 8:06 pm || Up

                The last sentence…that sounds to me like wingnuttery of the leftist variety. They attacked a liberal city (nevermind that it also happened to be the population, culture, and financial capital of the US, with a conservative mayor at the time) because they hated gay marriage and universal health care?

                • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 8:15 pm || Up

                  If I ever move to Boston, I am so going to buy you the beverage of your choice.

                  az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
                • salb918 Nov 17,2009 8:48 pm || Up

                  Earl Grey in the morning, oatmeal stout in the evening. I’ll let you know if I’m ever in Japan.

                • monkeyball Nov 18,2009 2:32 am || Up

                  Yes.

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
                • salb918 Nov 18,2009 4:13 am || Up

                  Uh…we’ll have to agree to disagree, then?

                • nevermoor Nov 18,2009 9:00 am || Up

                  I agree with this. They attacked NY for its financial system (and DC for its military system). Crazy people don’t care about US politics.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
          • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 6:28 pm || Up

            I realize that this…

            With a federal trial, we’re basically trying to take moral high ground with people that would just as soon kill us before caring what other people think about them. That’s not to say that we should just kill them–just that we seem to be bending over backwards to accommodate them.

            …will probably elicit the most disagreement. Take that for what it is–my own ideology. I realize that many may take the exact opposite position re: foreign policy and terrorism.

            az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
            • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 6:44 pm || Up

              I don’t disagree with your first descriptive sentence (though presumably we disagree with it used proscriptively).

              And pretty much ditto with the second clause of your second sentence (and ditto the parenthetic).

              And while I don’t think a military tribunal would be the right option, an honest and fair tribunal that observed appropriate international and US military conventions (as opposed to the patently ridiculous and childish Bush tribunals) would also have bent over backwards to accommodate them (not to the same degree as a civilian trial, but still).

              I don’t know where you stand on this next point, but I can assure you that many of the people agreeing with you on the tribunals issue also don’t believe the Geneva Conventions should apply to the accused/captured. Which, to me, is (a) loathsome, (b) not at all conservative from any honest angle, and (c) intellectually dishonest and/or stupid. I mean, at that point, “just kill them” is the operative directive (cf Conrad, “exterminate the brutes”). And that’s pretty much where A. McCarthy stands.

              you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
              • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 6:55 pm || Up

                Why would military tribunals handle mass-murder suspects? The whole “holy war” thing is THEIR propaganda, not ours. I reject it.

                "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 7:04 pm || Up

                  Well, as I said, I agree with you. I’m just sayin’, if you do go for MT’s, then there are still RULES, rules which guarantee the accused some (semblance of) rights which could be construed as accommodating.

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
              • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 7:13 pm || Up

                There are a lot of extremists on the right that would just as soon kill them, guilty or not, than risk another attack. There has to be some sort of moral stand to differentiate us from them–on that I certainly agree. We’re not going to win over the jihadists any time soon, but we can’t act as if how we treat suspected terrorists doesn’t affect international diplomacy.

                Just because the terrorists don’t respect the Geneva Conventions doesn’t mean that we have the right to go against what’s moral and humane. Not every suspect is an actual terrorist. Sure, the vast majority probably are.

                As a side note, I’ve been watching Eureka lately, which has been good throw away entertainment. It’s not the most sophisticated show, and many of the hooks are too contrived or transparent. But I sure like most of the characters, and there’s some good dialogue.

                There’s an episode where one inhabitant of the town endangers the life of everybody, and the leaders have to make a decision to kill him and save everybody, or to find some other solution. The military hand is all too quick to bomb him, while the people are slow to give up hope of a solution.

                I think that in an instant of war, that killer instinct can be a good thing, and can save lives. It’s just a shame that you can’t always know beforehand whether a decision is the right one.

                And, WOW, am I rambling.

                az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
                • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 7:19 pm || Up

                  I, for one, would not hesitate to push the button and destroy Leopold Bloom to save FK.

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
                • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 7:23 pm || Up

                  See, those are the moments when I’m just too wishy-washy to be trusted. I mean, what if I’m in Florida and in desperate need of a sign? Then what?

                  Also, I love the Eureka theme music by Mark Mothersbaugh.

                  az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
                • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 7:27 pm || Up

                  Apparently (did you miss it?), if you’re in FL after 1/1 (?), you’ll be SOL anyway.

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
                • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 7:30 pm || Up

                  Oh yeah! He’s got a replacement. Is that a good thing? I noticed that people were congratulating him. Does that mean that he has another job in store? Was he fired?

                  Either way, I guess you’ve got the green light to take him out.

                  az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
                • Leopold Bloom Nov 17,2009 9:14 pm || Up

                  My God. Bob Dylan was right. I’m only a pawn in your twisted kraut games.

                  Now I got Foreigner going through my head. Kraut Games…

                  My mother keeps trying to get me jobs here. She may be in denial as to what I intend.

                • andeux Nov 18,2009 9:47 am || Up

                  I, for one, would not hesitate to push the button and destroy Leopold Bloom to save FK wipe out the rest of Florida.

                  TINSTAAFK
                • nevermoor Nov 18,2009 9:02 am || Up

                  For the record, the vast majority of people held in Gitmo are not even charged with any violent act. A fair number of the have even been deemed innocent by the government.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • Leopold Bloom Nov 18,2009 4:52 pm || Up

                  why do they want to destroy Florida, then?

            • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 6:44 pm || Up

              And really, I’m just cranky b/c you haven’t sent me the photoshop job.

              (Of course, I haven’t even written my part yet.)

              you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
              • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 6:59 pm || Up

                Seriously, I feel bad about that. I’ll get that done soon. It’s been raining lately, so I haven’t been bringing my laptop with me to work (I bike). Work is where most of my non-family stuff (computer use) happens.

                az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
                • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 7:05 pm || Up

                  Eh, I’m just yankin’ your chain.

                  you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • mikeA Nov 17,2009 5:53 pm || Up

        aw, I liked that fire in your original post. I am ambivalent about the issue. The discovery issue is maybe a serious issue, or maybe not. Hard to say how the whole mess should be sorted out…

        …A. McCarthy is a loathsome collection of matter.

        • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 5:56 pm || Up

          He’s nowhere near as bad as Yoo.

          I liked the original post, too. I’ll follow suit with mine, though.

          you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
          • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 6:24 pm || Up

            I copied mine to notepad in case anybody accused me of going back on my opinions. I pulled it back in hopes that I could avoid a potential skirmish, but I didn’t get it fast enough.

            I hate arguing, but I hate not getting to speak my mind. It’s a tough world to live in.

            az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
            • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 6:31 pm || Up

              You should have told everyone that I edited your post.

              you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
            • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 6:32 pm || Up

              I like arguing.

              you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
            • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 6:55 pm || Up

              I like when you speak your mind, fwiw. That said, I’ll also speak mine back.

              "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 6:34 pm || Up

          He always seemed like such a nice guy to me.

          az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
          • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 7:05 pm || Up

            He and Spader both had the teen-sociopath thing nailed.

            you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
  12. monkeyball Nov 17,2009 4:54 pm

    Jesus Fucking Christ. I need to get rich, and quick.

    you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
    • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 4:55 pm || Up

      Oh, and — there’s no asking price on the CL ad, but there is one on the RE agent’s (linked) site. I guessed accurately within $125K.

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 5:26 pm || Up

        Meh. Bad school district.

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 5:51 pm || Up

          Pffssh. If I’ve got that kinda scratch for housing, I’m sending JP to private school or homeschooling him.

          you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
          • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 6:16 pm || Up

            Not in Bolinas you ‘aint

            "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
            • Leopold Bloom Nov 17,2009 9:16 pm || Up

              Dogs run free on the streets of Bolinas.

              • green star oakland Nov 17,2009 11:28 pm || Up

                Mad dogs and Bolinas men go out in the midday sun.

                If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
  13. monkeyball Nov 17,2009 5:05 pm

    A3a. < smacks self in forehead > Boy, it took me a while to realize whence the name of that guy’s site.

    you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
    • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 5:05 pm || Up

      Inexcusable.

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
      • nevermoor Nov 17,2009 5:29 pm || Up

        I don’t like it.

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • monkeyball Nov 17,2009 5:58 pm || Up

          [edit] I think I might disagree with some of that.

          you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
        • salb918 Nov 17,2009 8:10 pm || Up

          I don’t get it.

          • nevermoor Nov 18,2009 9:05 am || Up
            "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  14. monkeyball Nov 17,2009 7:20 pm

    Pride goes before a fall.

    (Also, just how funny would it be for the Slegna to get Milton?)

    you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
    • green star oakland Nov 17,2009 8:24 pm || Up

      As funny as a Cust/Guerrero RF/DH platoon?

      If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
  15. JediLeroy Nov 17,2009 8:37 pm

    Didn’t see this at first:

    What moves would you make if you were general manager of the Angels for a day, and money was no object?
    — Aaron B., Apple Valley, Calif.

    I’d sign Lackey, Figgins, Guerrero and Oliver and happily take my chances. Alas, only the Yankees have that kind of cash.

    az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
  16. salb918 Nov 18,2009 6:08 am

    I’d like to hear what our lawyers think of this.

    • monkeyball Nov 18,2009 8:51 am || Up

      His last name makes me suspicious that he might be a foreign national. In which case, there’d be no problem!

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come
    • nevermoor Nov 18,2009 9:07 am || Up

      Personally, I approve. The easy way to prevent that would be to not be a criminal (and, of course, if he hadn’t done it his own DNA sample would prove that). Then again, I don’t think big brother is coming for me.

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  17. nevermoor Nov 18,2009 10:56 am

    I don’t usually care about AS, but I admit I’m a bit tingly.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • mikeA Nov 18,2009 11:09 am || Up

      That is the most deranged thing I’ve ever read…

  18. mjdittmer Nov 18,2009 1:22 pm

    More on that other beauty queen

    People always ask me, Carrie, when you make a sex tape, does it help to actually be a Christian? … heck yes, it helps! I find that mock Christianity only cranks up the irony factor, the sexy hypocrisy of what you’re doing — and massive moralistic hypocrisy is a total turn on! Just ask all those Catholic priests! And Republican senators! And televangelists! And gay televangelists who have sex with Republican senator priests! Here’s a very simple formula I learned back when I was knee-high to a tequila shooter: The more you profess your hollow, virginal Christian righteousness, the greater the melodrama and drooling media attention when your lame, cheeseball sex tape — or meth fetish, or gay lover — comes to light, and the more money you get for your book deal and/or reality show. It’s like magic, or something! OMG you guys, capitalism is so awesome!

    And JoePo says the Chiefs-Raiders game, while ugly, was disappointingly not clearly the worst game in NFL history. Although …

    … to be fair to the officials, officiating this game would be like refereeing a fight between Andrew Golata and the Penguin from the Batman TV show. One guy’s hitting low, the other guy’s spraying knockout gas from his umbrella, it’s going to be tough to keep up.

    • monkeyball Nov 18,2009 2:00 pm || Up

      Aigh! Big THANK YOU to nevermoor for installing the preview function, so I could tell that was Morford before clicking on it.

      you better hope to God you don't show up in this little community, because you'll wish you had never come

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