Convention Season Grill ← FREE KRAUT!

Convention Season Grill 459

We were due for a new grill, and Krugman wanted to be ripped-off in his entirety.

I get the essence. The GOP campaign is based on five main themes, three negative and two positive.

Negative:

The claim that Obama denigrated businessmen, saying that they didn’t build their own firms — which isn’t true.

The claim that Obama has gutted Medicare to pay for the expansion of health insurance — which isn’t true.

The claim that Obama has eliminated the work requirement for welfare — which isn’t true.

Positive:

The claim that Ryan has a plan to balance the budget — which isn’t true.

The claim that Romney has a plan for economic recovery — which isn’t true. (The Economist: “The Romney Programme for Economic Recovery, Growth and Jobs” is like “Fifty Shades of Grey” without the sex).

459 thoughts on “Convention Season Grill

  1. andeux Aug 29,2012 11:28 am

    Today’s xkcd, while not his funniest work, is definite all-of-FK bait.

    TINSTAAFK
    • oblique Aug 29,2012 11:51 am || Up

      “Pedes” is missing!

    • beebo Aug 29,2012 12:40 pm || Up

      I think we’re only seeing one side of the spectrum here.

    • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 29,2012 12:53 pm || Up

      We’ll see how sketchy it sounds when we’re seated up near the sex tarp on Saturday.

      "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
    • SPWC Aug 29,2012 2:24 pm || Up

      I choose “ravine”

      \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
  2. colin Aug 29,2012 11:35 am

    I finally caught up with all the FK that I missed during my week away (in Beijing, then Yosemite). I didn’t even resort to the mark all unread button!

    • batgirl Aug 29,2012 12:37 pm || Up

      Wow–that’s pretty impressive!

    • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 12:53 pm || Up

      Woo!

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • colin Aug 29,2012 2:10 pm || Up

        Then I went to a meeting and fell behind again… should have brought my laptop and sat in the corner.

        • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 2:15 pm || Up

          That’s working well for me.

          If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
  3. oblique Aug 29,2012 11:51 am

    So, this is probably more lounge material than grill material, but FK it — I passed my commercial pilot check ride this morning!! 2.5 years (out of a total 7 I’ve been flying) and a failed test along the way.

    I feel like Chris Carter!

    • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 11:57 am || Up

      nice

      I have $5. No I don\'t.
    • JamesV Aug 29,2012 12:00 pm || Up

      Woot. Knew you would on the next one.

    • batgirl Aug 29,2012 12:38 pm || Up

      Yay! And…I don’t exactly know what this means. So by commercial, do you mean that you’ll do this as a profession? Or is “commercial” a particular class of license?

      • oblique Aug 29,2012 12:59 pm || Up

        Good questions – it’s a particular class of license, that allows me to charge for piloting services. It’s pretty limited – I’m not, for example, allowed to act as an “air carrier” or a “tour service operator” (for example, if I were to offer, on this site, that I’d give any of you an aerial bay tour for $300, or whatever, I’d be in violation of the FAA regs). The limited list of things I can do for hire, right now, is: banner towing, crop dusting, fire fighting, probably a few other minor things.

        My plan is to become a part time instructor, but I’m not looking at having it be a true profession.

        • AV Aug 29,2012 1:04 pm || Up

          so you’re taking us on a FREE tour?? OK!!!

          *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
          • AV Aug 29,2012 1:05 pm || Up

            and congratulations!

            *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
            • oblique Aug 29,2012 1:08 pm || Up

              Thanks! (to all)

              I can ask for pro-rata cost to help cover my costs, without violating any regs (so, if I take you and a friend, I can ask for up to 2/3 of my costs — and I’d be happy to do so, at less than that rate, if you’re interested).

              • JamesV Aug 29,2012 1:21 pm || Up

                I have no idea when this would be or how much it’d be, but I’ve occasionally thought it’d be really cool to go for a flight with someone and photograph various places.

                Who knows, maybe it will be a possibility sometime.

                • oblique Aug 29,2012 1:42 pm || Up

                  That’d be awesome. I’d be more than open to a barter arrangement as well!

                • JamesV Aug 29,2012 2:03 pm || Up

                  Neat. No timetable on it, very premature to even discuss, but we could talk via e-mail and see what’s what.

              • AV Aug 29,2012 1:23 pm || Up

                [scratches chin pondering very possible possibility]

                *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 1:40 pm || Up

                  it does sound fun

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • oblique Aug 29,2012 1:43 pm || Up

                  To anyone interested, I’m sure we can work something out!

                • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 1:52 pm || Up

                  Tailgate tours! Plus then you can bring a plane load of samosas.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • SPWC Aug 29,2012 2:26 pm || Up

                  What kind of aircraft?

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • oblique Aug 29,2012 2:56 pm || Up

                  For a tour, I’d use a Cessna 172 – relatively (!) cost effective, newer aircraft so nice safety features, high-wing so you can see the ground. Only downside is that it can only really carry 3 people (including myself).

                • JamesV Aug 29,2012 3:04 pm || Up

                  What does it generally cost for a flight and how far would that involve going, theoretically?

                • JamesV Aug 29,2012 3:04 pm || Up

                  Oh, I see the lack of certainty on cost below.

                • oblique Aug 29,2012 3:12 pm || Up

                  Well, lack of certainty on cost for a banner tow. Newer 172s cost about $169/hour, and a bay tour could take 1 to 1.5 hours depending on how much we cruise around. If we’re circling for photos, for example, that’d naturally take longer. And, so I’m not acting as a tour service, I can only charge you half of that (or bartered equivalent).

                • JamesV Aug 29,2012 3:17 pm || Up

                  It’ll definitely be worth researching further when the time is right. Lots of things could be fun to photograph from above. Just too bad it’d likely cost a lot more to get out of the area a bit further.

                • oblique Aug 30,2012 8:00 am || Up

                  Let’s keep in touch on this. I’d love to do a photo flight.

                • JamesV Aug 30,2012 8:02 am || Up

                  Yeah, I have no idea when or where but it’s been something I’ve kicked around in the back of my head before.

                  We can also take it off FK so we don’t forget – flashfire at speakeasy dot net

          • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 29,2012 1:07 pm || Up

            A Free, Hour Tour…A Free, Hour Tour….

            "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
          • Englishmajor Aug 29,2012 1:38 pm || Up

            A free tour with free foie gras!

        • beebo Aug 29,2012 1:51 pm || Up

          Banner towing, huh? Can we get you to fly over the Coliseum with some FK taglines?

          • oblique Aug 29,2012 2:07 pm || Up

            I really do want to tow a banner sometime.

            • AV Aug 29,2012 2:09 pm || Up

              [looks it up on urbandictionary]

              *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
              • beebo Aug 29,2012 2:13 pm || Up

                I think that would bring new meaning to the idea of “rotating taglines.”

                • SPWC Aug 29,2012 2:26 pm || Up

                  holy shitballs yes!

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
            • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 2:13 pm || Up

              How much would something like that cost?

              And would you be able to fly over the coliseum?

              "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
              • oblique Aug 29,2012 2:59 pm || Up

                I have no idea about cost, but I’ll do some research.. I’ll also have to get some additional training (I think it’s not that much though, and certainly no FAA exam – just an instructor’s sign off).

                To fly over the Coli during a game: there are flight restrictions, but I believe as long as I’m on a flight plan and talking to air traffic control, so I have a clearance, it’s possible to do so.

                • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 3:03 pm || Up

                  My wheels they are a-turnin’

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • SPWC Aug 29,2012 4:22 pm || Up

                  (high five)

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • beebo Aug 30,2012 8:13 am || Up

                  Yessssss

        • batgirl Aug 29,2012 2:04 pm || Up

          heh heh, you said crop dusting.

          • oblique Aug 29,2012 2:06 pm || Up

            You laugh, but as of this morning, I can get PAID for that!

            (I had no idea it meant that…)

    • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 29,2012 12:53 pm || Up

      Yay!

      "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
    • SPWC Aug 29,2012 2:25 pm || Up

      I knew you would do it!

      \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
    • Dial C for Concupiscence Aug 29,2012 2:43 pm || Up

      Congrats!

    • Poppy Aug 29,2012 8:16 pm || Up

      How much would you charge for curing Mr. Poppy of his flying-fear by December?

      There's a wild thing in the woolshed and it's keeping me awake at night.
      • Poppy Aug 29,2012 8:17 pm || Up

        (This might also require hypnosis. Can you do that?)

        There's a wild thing in the woolshed and it's keeping me awake at night.
    • futwork Aug 30,2012 4:34 pm || Up

      That’s so cool!

    • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 7:56 am || Up

      Wow! Congratulations!

  4. Future Ed Aug 29,2012 11:56 am

    I have $5. No I don\'t.
    • SPWC Aug 29,2012 2:26 pm || Up

      that’s great.

      \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
  5. WaddellCanseco Aug 29,2012 12:12 pm

    My current take on the points, one by one, subject to further investigation:

    1) Obama has denigrated businessmen — I’m not sure whether he has or has not denigrated businessmen, but it seems to me that Obama, and liberals generally, have a whole lot more faith in the ability of government to solve economic problems than in the ability of entrepreneurs to do the same. I’m going to give this one to the Republicans on substance, whether or not it is literally true.

    2) Obama has gutted Medicare to pay for expanded health coverage — I don’t know one way or the other the full impact of whatever reforms have taken place to the health care system, but this to me is too specific of a point to be relevant. The bigger issue is how to get the most people the best health care at the least cost. I’ve yet to be impressed that any proposal put forth by either party does this adequately. One annoying thing about proposals from both parties is the steadfast refusal to incorporate ideas put forth by the other party, e.g. Democrats refuse to allow insurance to sold across state lines and oppose expansion of health savings accounts, while Republicans refuse to recognize the costs to society of the massive numbers of uninsured both in terms of higher hard costs to insured people and the state as well as worse health. Republicans also ignore the difficulty encountered by sick people in getting covered. I’m going to call this a giant failure for both parties.

    3) Obama has eliminated work requirement for welfare — I really don’t know, but don’t care because this is just a distraction from our greater economic problems. I’m going to give this one to the Democrats, because Romney has chosen to focus on a small potatoes hot-button issue rather than provide a blueprint for economic recovery.

    4) Ryan has a plan to balance the budget — Again, I doubt that anyone has one of these that will work in the absence of rapid and sustainable economic growth, so I don’t care about this criticism. Not an issue for me.

    5) Romney has a plan for economic recovery — This is basically true as far as I can tell, neither does Obama as far as I can tell. I’m going to call this one a scoreless, error-filled 5000 inning tie.

    So in summary:

    Republicans – 1
    Democrats – 1
    Both Crappy – 2
    I don’t care – 1

    I want to say this is going to be a tough decision for me, but so far I’m thinking it doesn’t really matter who wins the election since the country will limp along in its current mediocrity in either case.

    • WaddellCanseco Aug 29,2012 12:13 pm || Up

      Oops I meant that Romney does not have a real plan for economic recovery

    • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 29,2012 12:44 pm || Up

      First, I think your response sets aside the main point that the Republican campaign is based on misinformation about Obama and their current plans. However, I also get your point that maybe we should put aside the rhetoric and focus on the substance. As far as I’m concerned:

      1. The government, aside from preventing complete disaster during recession, has little effect on the economy. I disagree that liberals put more faith in the government to solve economic problems than Republicans do. I do think that they are realistic that Republican proposals for “tax reform” are little more than half-veiled attempts to benefit the already wealthy, which neither helps entrepreneurs nor the vast majority of Americans.

      2. More or less agree; however, Obama has gone further than any other; hopefully future efforts will be put forth to improve, not undo, what Obama has done.

      3. Agreed.

      4. Agreed.

      5. Agreed, but again, in reality, this shouldn’t be the substance of the election, if we were to be honest and say that THE PRESIDENT HAS LITTLE IMPACT ON THE ECONOMY. However, it’s really fucking easy to prey on people’s fears that four more years of Obama means continued unemployment.

      A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
      • nobody in particular Aug 29,2012 12:59 pm || Up

        The trope that the President has anything but the most tangential impact on “the economy” and “jobs,” asserted 24/7/365 by corporate mass media and thus a lie repeated so often it has become the truth, is further proof, were it needed, that Americans have been led to a state of near-religious belief in the most blatant and simplistic of falsehoods.

        It’s just another aspect of the impetus the corrupt power structure that demands overthrow has to systematically disinform the American population with its infantile narrative into a state of complete, 100% manipulability and engineered, empty and impotent “opinion” whilst their actual quality of life circles the drain of all drains forever.

        The idea that the president impacts the economy in such a direct, absolute way is just another piece of the narrative designed to make sure Americans believe in a “Daddy” figure whose job it is to solve their financial problems, a parent. Because the goal of this cocksucker slave system is to keep us all obedient to our own suicide-by-capitalism, with ultimate fealty to a system that requires an outright fantasy of infinite growth from finite resources, and to keep us on board requires an invocation of that primal family aspect, an omnipotent father figure.

        Someday I’m-a write a big ol’ book on exactly how we are all engineered to the delusional, terrorized Stockholm Syndrome state we inhabit, and how this shit started dating all the way back to the invention of marketing in the 19-teens as a mechanism to divide and conquer us so we could be made completely subservient in every aspect of our existence to the power elite whilst simultaneously being convinced we were the freest motherfuckers ever to breathe air.

        Never suck on a Blow Pop with the microphone open.
    • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 12:59 pm || Up

      I have a whole lot of issues with your list, but I’ll focus quickly on this from #1:

      “[Obama and liberals] have a whole lot more faith in the ability of government to solve economic problems than in the ability of entrepreneurs to do the same.”

      This is a false dichotomy. Government policymakers aim to influence macroeconomic trends, whereas entrepreneurs obviously are focused on micro events. The standard conservative position (as I understand it) is that the collective decisions of “job creators” will lead to better results than would the decisions of a bunch of bureaucrats in Washington. But the Democratic philosophy is that government policymakers (at all levels) should strive to create the optimal economic conditions for business to thrive in a way that benefits society at large. The fundamental difference between the parties is not “who do you trust to solve problems” but rather how much can and should government act at the macro level to change incentives and rein in bad behavior at the micro level.

      And incidentally, the point of the Obama quote that the R’s are pulling out of context is that government is always going to have some role in your success as an entrepreneur, whether you like to admit it or not. Complete individualism does not exist in the American economy, and that’s a good thing.

      • dmoas Aug 29,2012 1:08 pm || Up

        Hmm… regarding your last paragraph, I’ve read it less about government specifically, but society as a whole (including government) has had some role in your success, etc. etc. You can be successful without my willingness and ability to buy from you, ergo while you’re making money (and deservedly so), you, in turn, need to play your role in allowing me to be successful and/or able to continue to play my role(s).

        • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 1:14 pm || Up

          What Obama was saying is that every successful business relies on roads, electricity, educated workers, police, fire departments, etc, etc. that the state provides. And he is right about that.

          "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 1:11 pm || Up

      Thanks for this. Here are my thoughts, presented as fairly as I can.

      1) I guess it depends upon your goalposts. I would say it is fair to characterize GOP policy as “many regulations are roadblocks that prevent business from working” and Democratic policy as “we need government regulations to prevent abusive business practices.” I can see why you see the latter as less fond of business (because it is), but the specific claim is the “you didn’t build that” b.s. that the GOP built the entire first day of their convention around. That’s just plain dishonest, and a major part of the Romney campaign.

      2) “One annoying thing about proposals from both parties is the steadfast refusal to incorporate ideas put forth by the other party” I won’t lie. This one has me seeing red. The ENTIRE STRUCTURE of Obamacare is based upon GOP policy (as opposed to liberal structures like single-payer which I believe would work better). If you want proof, look to Romneycare which was enacted by a Republican based upon research by conservative think-tanks looking for an alternative to Hillary’s proposals in the nineties. I think you should reconsider this feeling, because in my view it is not true. I also disagree with your substantive conclusion. Obamacare will provide insurance for a huge number of people, and represents the largest expansion in coverage in a LONG time. Oh, and it will save money. It’s probably the best piece of domestic policy since LBJ, and anything but a giant failure (even though it isn’t everything I wanted).

      3) This one is not unknowable. It is just a lie. I know I am critical of fact check sites, but this summary is accurate.

      So where did the notion of a major welfare reform overhaul come from?
      Where it didn’t come from is Washington but rather from Utah, Nevada, California, Connecticut and Minnesota.
      These states, some with Republican governors, asked the federal government for more flexibility in how they hand out welfare dollars. Their purpose was to spend less time on federal paperwork and more time experimenting with ways to connect welfare recipients with jobs.

      4) Fair enough, I think you’re right that the budget is in trouble unless the economy recovers rapidly. That said, Ryan’s plan is a fraud.

      5) Disagree. Obama has requested a number of things that would help, but the GOP has blocked them all to deny him any wins. Romney, on the other hand, is focused on tax cuts for the wealthy (and tax increases for the poor).

      I would score it 4-0-1 based upon the opinions you’re expressing.

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • WaddellCanseco Aug 29,2012 2:01 pm || Up

        Thanks for the thoughtful response.

        1) I’m not going to defend GOP rhetoric during the convention, and I don’t expect to be all that swayed by rhetoric during the Democratic convention.

        2) I forgot about the single-payer idea. Sorry about that. I’m also not going to say that Romney has a better, or even substantively different plan. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought Obamacare wouldn’t expand coverage. I do think it will do that. I’m not convinced that it will save money, but I don’t know one way or the other.

        3) It may be a bald faced lie. I scored this one for the Democrats anyway.

        4) I need to analyze Ryan’s plan more than I have, but it doesn’t sound like we really disagree on the importance of economic growth in budget balancing

        5) Looking at that list, I’m not seeing anything that really excites me as a means to transform the economy into something fundamentally better. I understand that both Republicans and Democrats have put forth ideas that have not been adopted, but I’ve yet to see one that I think will make a significant positive difference.

        • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 4:42 pm || Up

          Here’s where I land on these:

          1) Sure, but the original point is that a major GOP campaign theme is a lie. That’s not normal, and it would trouble me if I was considering supporting the GOP. Like it would trouble me if Obama made his campaign primarily about an assertion that Romney can’t tell the difference between corporations and people.

          2) Romney absolutely does have a different plan: he would repeal Obamacare and then ______. I wasn’t mad that you forgot about single payer, I was mad that you accuse both sides of failing to do something when that something is exactly what Obama did. It’s a peeve of mine. As far as the saving money part, do you have any basis to disbelieve the CBO’s analysis? If so I would be interested in seeing it.

          3) Ok

          4) We don’t, but that isn’t the problem with the Ryan plan. Krugman’s claim was that it is a lie to say the Ryan plan would balance the budget. That claim is true, not because Ryan relies upon recovery but because he relies on unspecified and impossible cuts to offset his identifiable and plausible spending increases. In other words, it’s a typical tax-cut plan with a magic asterisk.

          5) I would agree that those proposals won’t solve the problem. But they’d be steps in the right direction. And the claim was that Romney has no proposal but is lying about it, not that Obama has a secret answer that he is withholding until after he is reelected.

          "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
          • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:02 am || Up

            1) OK. This isn’t a big deal to me, but I see your point.

            2) Good point. Sorry about that.

            3) Yay!

            4) I don’t disagree with Krugman here, but I’m not a deficit hawk as much as a growth guy.

            5) Romney seems to be suggesting the usual Republican things of tax cuts and deregulation. I’m not excited by them, but I wouldn’t say he’s silent on the topic.

            • SPWC Aug 31,2012 9:14 am || Up

              4) We have to redefine growth. The world economy and the rapidly changing world ecosystems are intertwined, and can’t support our wasteful ways indefinitely. One of the reasons I love my hometown is that I have to love it while it’s still here. It won’t do any good to pine for it after the valley is filled 60 feet deep with saltwater and the major valley population center is Chico… a lovely town overlooking the New Ione Sea…

              \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
    • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 1:29 pm || Up

      Specifically on Point 2’s

      a) insurance across state lines: I am fine with that so long as there is an enabled Federal insurance commission, something I don’t think the Republicans would be ok with. Insurance is a nasty business that needs a lot of over site.

      b) I don’t have an informed opinion of expansion of HSA’s, but I know that the health care plan that I am currently on has an HSA and it really really really sucks. And our broker explained that any plan that is HSA eligible sucks.

      I don’t know if the problem is with i) the HSA itself or ii) the inability for the tax code to allow me to put pre tax money in an account for low deductible plans.

      I have $5. No I don\'t.
      • WaddellCanseco Aug 29,2012 2:05 pm || Up

        I’m more fatigued by each side putting forth the same proposals year after year and having the other side make up some reason why it’s a bad idea. I’m not a policy wonk, and don’t know whether interstate insurance would matter or that HSA would make my life easier. The longer this goes on unresolved the more pessimistic I get. In the past there would have been a bipartisan proposal that took all corrupt interest groups into account and somehow gotten through. Nowadays it seems that no one gains any political advantage from attaching his/her name to anything bipartisan so we just have the same sniping ad nauseum.

        • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 2:18 pm || Up

          A couple reactions to this (while I think about your other one)

          First, a lot of the bipartisanship of the past was an illusion based upon the fact that southern racists ran as Democrats. So northerners could agree on civil rights stuff, for example, and it would be bipartisan. Now, there is no similarly-huge intra-party divide.

          Second, the problem with interstate insurance is that you would have a race to the bottom, with states racing to reduce requirements and attract insurance HQs (notice, for example, that credit card companies are often stationed in the Dakotas). That’s why Ed is talking about a regulatory comission.

          Third, you’re right that the stated goal of the GOP is to deny Obama a second term. So he refuses to make anything bipartisan unless it is 95%+ of what the GOP asks for.

          "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
          • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 7:54 am || Up

            Why is this race to the bottom bad for me?

            • colin Aug 30,2012 8:01 am || Up

              The race to the bottom that nm is talking about would be states competing to have the most lenient regulations, because all of the insurance companies will move their headquarters to the most lenient state. The practical effect will be that all insurance regulation is relaxed and history shows that unregulated insurance providers do some really nasty things, like dropping people for nit-picky reasons once they get sick.

              • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 8:18 am || Up

                Ah. I see how that would be bad for me.

              • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 10:05 am || Up

                Yep, this.

                "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • Poppy Aug 30,2012 1:02 pm || Up

        HDHPs suck unless, like this year in PoppyLand, your employer funded the HSA and then you or your dependents ran up half a million in medical expenses (so far — say one of your dependents will be getting genetic testing, a mammogram, and a CT scan & colonoscopy before the end of the year, and the other dependent is in therapy and might need a hip replacement) that you wound up only having to pay about $10-12K for, TOTAL, out of pocket. Even with a self-funded HSA, a year like this one would be a bargain.

        But once upon a time, we had an HDHP + HSA (self-funded) during a healthy year, and yeah, it really really really sucked.

        There's a wild thing in the woolshed and it's keeping me awake at night.
        • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 1:24 pm || Up

          yeah, I can not go to the doctor and ride shit out, but I can’t do that for my kids.

          I have $5. No I don\'t.
    • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 3:04 pm || Up

      this conversation reminds me of this article by my friend.

      Nothing more than a shameless plug to read my friend’s piece.

      I have $5. No I don\'t.
      • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 8:01 am || Up

        Hee. I’m actually surprised there aren’t more swing voters if it’s true we’re in single digits. It’s not that we don’t know anything about the candidates. Speaking for myself, I voted for Obama in 2008 mostly because of his fierce opposition to the war in Iraq, and also because he had the upside to be an inspirational leader. I was less sanguine about his chances at fixing the economy, but after 8 years of Bush, I figured he couldn’t be any worse, and he hasn’t been worse, but no better at that either. He has done more or less what I wanted from him, which is to ramp down in Iraq and present a less hostile face to the world, while maintaining strength, as he showed in Libya and elsewhere. This time though, to me it’s more about the economy. I’m faced with the choice of maintaining the status quo, which I don’t like, or doing something difference, which so far isn’t very impressive but is at least not the same. Hence my indecision.

        • sslinger Aug 30,2012 9:46 am || Up

          Different from Obama, maybe, but basically the same as the predecessor, who got us into this mess in the first place. And his foreign policy advisors would include the whole neocon crew that got us into Iraq and would dearly love to engage in Iran.

          • SPWC Aug 30,2012 9:53 am || Up

            good point about the salivation over Iran.

            \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
          • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 10:03 am || Up

            Romney has been mostly silent on Iran so far, from what I’ve seen. I imagine it is going to be a major point in the debates, though, which will be interesting. I’m sure Romney will downplay just how Cheney-esque his administration will be.

            Romney hasn’t been talking much about foreign policy at all, really, except for being weirdly bellicose toward Russia. I think he has (correctly) realized that the Democrats for the first time in memory have the upper hand on foreign policy, and that the last thing he wants to highlight is how green he and Ryan are internationally. I’m a little worried that they are going to get into the White House without ever laying out their foreign policy vision.

            • dmoas Aug 30,2012 10:06 am || Up

              His foreign tour during the Olympics was a major fail.

              • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 10:10 am || Up

                Yeah. It also doesn’t help that Ryan, for all of his charm, looks like a little boy trying on daddy’s big boy clothes. He exudes “not ready for the presidency” when you see him on television, especially with all of that “I like AC/DC and Zeppelin” nonsense. Romeny went against the Cheney/Biden model at his political peril.

                • MikeV Aug 30,2012 10:12 am || Up

                  It’s quite bothering to me that these people are possibly going to become the most powerful men in the world.

                  And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

                  Thanks, and go As.

                • dmoas Aug 30,2012 10:27 am || Up

                  It bothers me that a lot of the folks around the country that I have no say in have way too much power to dictate my future.

                • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:03 pm || Up

                  It makes me want to projectile vomit all over everything.

                • AV Aug 30,2012 10:20 am || Up

                  you sir, are no dan quayle.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 10:24 am || Up

                  He’s smarter than Quayle, but just as green. Thing is, though, Bush could get away with a naif as a running mate because he himself had impeccable foreign policy credentials. Romney, like Obama and W, doesn’t have that going for him.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 12:59 pm || Up

                  I find it hard to believe Ryan will be Dick Cheney, but I also didn’t believe Dick Cheney would be Dick Cheney.

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:06 pm || Up

                  I meant that in 2000, the Cheney pick helped W with voters who would have thought he was too green to handle the foreign policy responsibilities of the presidency. He was a political asset on that front (though a political liability later once we learned about his actual views and conduct in office). Romney’s problem is that he is already weak on foreign policy credentials, and the Ryan pick exacerbates that problem.

                  I definitely don’t think Ryan would be a Cheney figure. I don’t think he’s ever devoted any serious thought to foreign policy, and I doubt he would exert any influence over a Romney Administration foreign policy. Ryan might be susceptible to a Cheney-like figure in the event he becomes president, but that’s another question.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:25 pm || Up

                  Right. I agree with all this.

                • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 1:27 pm || Up

                  Similar to what Biden did for Obama

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:28 pm || Up

                  Exactly.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:39 pm || Up

                  Not for me he didn’t. What made me an Obama guy was that he opposed the war from the beginning and never wavered. I don’t really care about foreign policy experience in a president. You can hire people for that. What I care about is the ability to stick to one’s principles in the face of unpopularity, and Obama had that in spades on that issue.

                • DFA Aug 30,2012 7:47 pm || Up

                  you don’t think hiring a VP counts?

                  In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:04 am || Up

                  I’m not sure what you’re asking. I was for Obama before Biden, and Biden’s arrival made absolutely no difference to me.

                • nevermoor Aug 31,2012 8:55 am || Up

                  I don’t, except to the extent you’re making a judgment call that the person would be a good president. Which I think has an upside of not mattering and a downside of Palin.

                  For example, it was funny to see Mitt continue the Obama-has-no-business-experience attack yesterday. Because Obama has more of it than Ryan.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
          • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:05 pm || Up

            Yes, Romney’s similarity to Bush on the economy is the biggest thing Obama has going for him in my mind on that topic.

        • AV Aug 30,2012 9:47 am || Up

          but is there any reason to think that this change would be to your benefit? i’m not counting myself among those who can…

          …chance it.

          *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
        • SPWC Aug 30,2012 9:49 am || Up

          IIRC, you don’t care much about the social policy end of things.

          I don’t worry about theoretical fiscal policies subject to debate and congressional vote as much as I worry about the idea that a Romney win will be taken as a mandate by the social/religious right to unleash an even larger wave of socially regressive legislation and behavio(u)r in general. I can see attempts to re-criminaliz(s)e homosexuality brewing in those fearful little minds. There’s already a movement a-brewin’ to (in the long run) re-classify women legally as potential carriers of unborn children first, and humans second.

          \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
          • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:02 pm || Up

            It’s not that I don’t care about the social policy end of things, it’s that I don’t think it’s that important in presidential elections. Social policies change when the population wants them to change, and politicians usually follow but don’t lead. Those movements you describe all exist, and will exist regardless of who’s president, but I also think that no matter who’s president they will weaken if the economy grows. Economic hardship is a fine fertile ground for anti-social people, bigots and the like.

            • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:20 pm || Up

              They’ll exist and continue to exist, but I don’t really want to hand them the fucking presidency. Since having someone in office who can veto things that will make my lifestyle illegal and make it legal to discriminate against me in regards to my job/finances/child custody/schooling/etc is, y’know. Concerning.

              • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:30 pm || Up

                Do you believe there is a substantive difference in the personal views of Obama and Romney on LGBT issues? My impression for both is that they, at heart, are not particularly gay-friendly, but that things like marriage rights, right to serve in the military, right to gain spousal benefits, etc. aren’t very important to either, and that either will say what he has to in order to raise the most money. Obama made what looked to me like a pretty dramatic about face on the marriage issue when fundraising season got into full gear. Romney hardly mentions these issues except as part of a checklist so he can raise money from those with opposing views.

                • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:38 pm || Up

                  I do believe there’s enough of a difference — and at the end of the day, their personal view doesn’t matter to me as much as their political actions. They’ll respond to their constituents. Obama’s not going to particularly rock the boat, since through LGBT and women under the bus in order to maintain the moderates has been the Democrats’ policy for years now. He’ll make some minor steps, like his current statements and support, and those have their uses. I do absolutely believe that Romney will make life hellacious if he made it to office, particularly if the GOP has a House and/or Senate majority, in order to appease his party.

                • SPWC Aug 30,2012 2:27 pm || Up

                  I agree. Romney’s a false alpha male with confidence issues he covers up with bullying and bluster. He’ll be appeasing so many motherFKers and alienating so many others he’ll end up causing conflicts from talking out of both sides of his mouth, and shitstorm city will likely ensue internationally.

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 2:29 pm || Up

                  Interesting to see this comment just after reading this.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • SPWC Aug 30,2012 2:32 pm || Up

                  semi-topic reply fail

                  Domestically, the future is a little murkier. I don’t think this particular backlash against women is going to end up in long-term rollbacks, except in regions/areas that may splinter in the distant future to become theological fascist enclaves. I think there will be short-medium term losses in central states, but the inevitable progression of obsolescence of unaltered humans is going to eventually kill conservative society’s baby fetish and right-to-live movements over the next couple of decades, unless radically unforeseen regression happens and we live in some sort of technofascist theocracy.

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:31 pm || Up

                  Wow. Too bad this is too long for a tagline.

                • JamesV Aug 30,2012 4:02 pm || Up

                  I’ve seen longer.

                  Ahem.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:04 am || Up

                  TWSS?

                • colin Aug 30,2012 1:43 pm || Up

                  I’m speculating pretty hard here, but I think that Obama’s belief system is probably strongly influenced by his academic background at Columbia, Harvard, and Chicago, and that his religious background is somewhat less than authentic (adopted mostly as a political tool to relate to constituents on the south side of Chicago). Mitt has similar Ivy league credentials, but I am more convinced of his dedication to his religion — and it’s a religion that has very conservative views on social issues.

                  I would agree that neither of these guys views gay rights as a personal crusade (in the positive or negative direction), so they are probably both going to play those issues mostly for politics. But there is a difference there too, because Obama is mostly responsive to the Democrat base while Romney has to keep Republicans happy. There is a big difference in the party platforms…

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:46 pm || Up

                  Right, to me this basically means that neither will rock the boat. I can even see Romney supporting LGBT rights wholeheartedly if he thought that’s where the country was.

                • colin Aug 30,2012 1:49 pm || Up

                  I agree. I mean, Mitt even boasted that he would be a bigger supporter of gay rights when he was running against Ted Kennedy for Senate in MA.

                • DFA Aug 31,2012 1:15 am || Up

                  yeah i strongly disagree with this.

                  In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
          • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:14 pm || Up

            The long run is a hell of a lot shorter than I’d like, given the mammoth amount of dumbfuck law proposals dedicated to criminalizing miscarriage, promotion preconceptive care, and treating women like two-year-olds (not capable of understanding that pregnancy means there’s shit growing inside you, but apparently capable of raising a child. What.) and the ability of said laws to actually pass.

            The government has long since stopped considering women to be humans.

            • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:36 pm || Up

              How do you rate the ability and desire of politicians in general to legislate on such controversial issues? When was the last time a politician actually took the lead on one? Civil Rights passed in 1964, after the white northern citizenry went to the South and protested segregation. Kennedy famously stated in 1957 that it was not the right time for such laws. “Don’t ask don’t tell” was implemented by Clinton because he thought it appropriate for the time, regardless of his personal feelings, which even today I don’t know no matter what he says. I just don’t believe that any politician is going to go out on a limb for social justice if it’s not popular.

              • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:39 pm || Up

                It’s not just about getting legislation passed, of course. Running the administrative state, wielding the veto pen, and nominating federal judges are what matter most on these issues.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:48 pm || Up

                  Yes but even judges usually follow the public. Nobody wants to be the guy who made homosexuality illegal unless he thinks that that’s where the public is. Even Roe v Wade followed the feminist movement of the 1960s.

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 2:37 pm || Up

                  I don’t know how to respond to this. Yes, the direction the public is heading on an issue is very influential on both political and judicial actors. But these are often close questions on which the public is deeply divided. Who is issuing executive orders, approving agency rulemaking, casting the deciding vote on constitutional cases etc. matters greatly, no matter whether the tide of history is already pointing in a particular direction.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:35 pm || Up

                  I just can’t think of any case in recent US history where the public didn’t lead on a social issue. In fact the only example I can think of worldwide was Hitler, who was virulently anti-Jewish regardless of the politics. On deeply divided issues, my take is that politicians avoid the issue like the plague once in office. I really don’t think it matters who’s casting deciding votes and all that stuff if the tide of history is pointing in a particular direction. The vote caster will go along no matter what his/her personal beliefs nor the party platform. These are survivors first and foremost.

                • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 3:44 pm || Up

                  For me, and I assume gm, its more professional than social.

                  There are a lot of bad judges giving us ideological rulings on cases you won’t hear about. Bad cases make things harder for you as a consumer, a “private” citizen, and being able to enjoy scientific/intellectual advancements.

                  For me, who is in office and appointing judges and administrators directly impacts my work.

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:56 pm || Up

                  This, I believe.

              • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 1:46 pm || Up

                Umm… Obama.

                Lily Ledbetter and ending DADT.

                "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:37 pm || Up

                  After the public was ready to accept it. There was no uproar as far as I remember.

                • dmoas Aug 30,2012 3:48 pm || Up

                  There was a bit of an uproar over DADT. Just not around here.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:57 pm || Up

                  I mean even in St Louis, I don’t remember any great objections to lifting DADT.

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 4:00 pm || Up

                  OK, but so what? Do you think a Republican president would have lifted it? I don’t.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:06 am || Up

                  I think it depends on the individual, but you’re right. Most probably would have not done anything.

                • DFA Aug 31,2012 12:46 pm || Up

                  McCain went hardcore this is going to hurt America while we are in two wars so I think emperically youre belief is false.

                  In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 1:14 pm || Up

                  You mean there is an uproar? I wouldn’t call one senator’s statement an uproar. I think the change is broadly accepted by the public.

                • DFA Aug 31,2012 6:59 pm || Up

                  well considering that he was the other choice for president and Romeny opposes the repeal as well Im not sure how you could claim that it would have happened with GOP presidency

                  In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
                • WaddellCanseco Sep 1,2012 10:35 am || Up

                  As I replied to GM, I mostly agree

                • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 3:59 pm || Up

                  I mean, it was a purely partisan law that was opposed by many in the GOP, including Romney.

                  It was definitely not inevitable, though you are right the public overwhelmingly supported it.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
              • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 2:00 pm || Up

                Uh, given that 2011 was a record-setting year for state legislation creating abortion restrictions despite the fact that the economy is the real issue in every single state? Plenty of politicians are willing to go out and legislate on controversial issues in a conservative fashion and claim that these ‘ethical issues’ are more important than the financial crisis? I will absolutely take someone who isn’t willing to go balls-to-the-wall for social justice if they’re willing to at least not fuck shit up and veto those bills that will.

                It doesn’t need to be a grand affair to the extent of the Civil Rights Act to have a profound impact – the erosion of reproductive rights in America through the increased restrictions and requirements for clinics in proof of that, the small-time tactics and nonstop wave of legislation has been proof of that. There’s been more of a guerilla war being run nowadays to enact change, rather than going with the large, sweeping decisions.

                Also, a ‘what up’ fistbump to Lilly Ledbetter as NM’s point.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:38 pm || Up

                  Yes but again, this is what the public wanted. When did a politician do something like this against the public’s wishes, because of his/her own beliefs or party platform?

                • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 4:05 pm || Up

                  I may be misunderstanding your question. Are you asking about laws passed without popular support or positions taken without popular support?

                  I could believe the former is rare. There are lots of politicians, though, that are anti-death penalty.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 4:08 pm || Up

                  Well, look at the current batshit issue — the polls from varying sources have repeatedly indicated that the American public generally supports health of the mother/rape/incest exceptions, yet we’ve seen an increase in the number of pushes for blanket abortion bans without exemptions over the past ten years?

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:08 am || Up

                  I didn’t know that, but if these 10 years included the past 4, then my point about who’s in the White House and Senate not mattering for stuff like this stands.

                • Kylianna Aug 31,2012 9:28 am || Up

                  Except it DOES matter. A lot of the proposed bills over the past 4 are the result of conservative backlash/posturing. (seriously, some of the shit they tried to get passed, I can’t even), and a large percentage are individual state law.

                  And if nothing else, preventing one state’s asshole behavior from becoming national policy (like our friend Paul Ryan’s co-sponsoring a federal version of the forced ultrasound bill? Yes, it matters having someone like that get more power)? Is important. It matters.

                  The fact that they’re willing to enact legislation against the will of the people, and basic science, on a state level just means that there’s more reason not to open the doors to the White House to them.

                • SPWC Aug 31,2012 9:45 am || Up

                  The fact that they’re willing to enact legislation against the will of the people, and basic science, on a state level just means that there’s more reason not to open the doors to the White House to them.

                  The only doors that should be opened to people like that are prison and crazyhouse entrance gates.

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 9:59 am || Up

                  I don’t think they’re willing to, or capable of, enacting legislation against the will of the people. To the extent that the will of the people differs from state to state, legislation is differing from state to state. If the national will of the people is that women should get forced ultrasounds I’m thinking it will probably happen. I don’t think that’s the prevailing will of the people nationally though.

                • Kylianna Sep 1,2012 12:13 am || Up

                  ….So you think that, if the will of the people is to dehumanize a particular minority group, remove their rights, and their right to their personal liberty, that’s cool? And the government is under no obligation to protect them?

                • WaddellCanseco Sep 1,2012 10:34 am || Up

                  Not if it violates anyone’s constitutional rights, it’s not cool. But if no laws are broken, there’s not a whole lot the government can do. Legislators can try to enact new laws but if the people don’t want them, they’re not likely to pass. I mean it still isn’t “cool”, but it also isn’t likely to change in the short term until the hearts and minds of people changes.

                • colin Aug 31,2012 9:50 am || Up

                  You are correct that all of the abortion restrictions are originating at the state level. Republicans seem to be doing a really good job of pressing the attack at the local and state levels. If they can get that done, then their national politics can focus on more palatable state’s rights / anti-federalism arguments to achieve pocket right-wing utopias.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:00 am || Up

                  Yes, this makes sense to me as a strategy. Americans are deeply divided on some issues, and to the extent that those divisions are geographic, it might make sense to have the laws vary by state.

                • colin Aug 31,2012 10:03 am || Up

                  But I don’t think it is a good thing for the country to divide up into little pockets that diverge politically until we end up with a bunch of Berkeleys and Colorado Springs.

                • SPWC Aug 31,2012 10:28 am || Up

                  Why not?

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • colin Aug 31,2012 10:37 am || Up

                  ptbnl has one very good example below.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:36 am || Up

                  I don’t know whether it’s good or bad, but it seems to be the direction we’re heading. The greater choice of people regarding where they live seems likely to result in people of like mind congregating.

                • ptbnl Aug 31,2012 10:05 am || Up

                  Like slavery in the south?

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:35 am || Up

                  No. Not like that. That violated the constitutional rights of people whose occupation was “slave”.

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 31,2012 10:37 am || Up

                  Not before the 13th Amendment it didn’t.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:44 am || Up

                  Yes. That was an important amendment.

                • ptbnl Aug 31,2012 10:42 am || Up

                  Agreed.

                  But then you get to messing with the constitution (eg. an amendment banning same-sex marriage) to overrule state decisions you don’t like.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:46 am || Up

                  I think that’s likely to pass if it has enough public support. And it should pass if it has enough public support to amend the constitution. That’s how the country was designed. I don’t have a better design for a country than the US constitution, and the current amendment process, even if it results in laws I don’t personally like.

                • dmoas Aug 31,2012 10:55 am || Up

                  Except equality should never be at the mercy of public support/majority rule.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 11:48 am || Up

                  How would you design a country that guarantees that absolutely and forever?

                • dmoas Aug 31,2012 11:53 am || Up

                  Not sure it’s possible. A big problem is that this country has gotten too big to be able to adequately protect it’s citizen’s rights or needs.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 11:58 am || Up

                  I think our rights are better protected now than they’ve ever been. Massive improvements in information availability and communications have been the key….as well as mobility and economic opportunity. You just can’t lynch, intimidate and rape people as freely as you could in the past.

                • dmoas Aug 31,2012 12:22 pm || Up

                  Not really the same thing. Yes, things are better. They’ll probably improve, still. But that’s not the same as protected. It just means the more horrify overt/aggressive criminal actions are less likely. The less aggressive means are still there. And those can be worse because they can be easier for good people to justify, ignore, dilute, and accept.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 12:33 pm || Up

                  I think that’s probably the way things will go though. Passive aggressive bad acts are taking over from overt bad acts.

                • Dial C for Concupiscence Aug 31,2012 1:16 pm || Up

                  You just can’t lynch, intimidate and rape people as freely as you could in the past.

                  Yeah, you have to work harder to redefine those terms in your favor first these days.

                • dmoas Aug 31,2012 1:35 pm || Up

                  Unfortunately it seems easier to accomplish. I mean, the GOP distorts their voter ID laws in order to help maintain power by diminishing the poor they’re subjugating, but on the surface it seems reasonable and responsible to make sure those who are voting have that right.

                • Kylianna Sep 1,2012 12:08 am || Up

                  You can’t lynch, intimidate, and rape people freely, but you can ‘stand your ground’, use ‘necessary force’, and have to define if something ‘legitimate rape’ or not.

                • WaddellCanseco Sep 1,2012 10:31 am || Up

                  @Kylianna, yes on the first two but these were always true, and on the third one I think it’s a lot harder to call a rape anything but a rape than it was even 30 years ago.

                • Kylianna Sep 1,2012 11:22 am || Up

                  Media and politicians seem to do an admirable job of it of calling rape pretty much anything but.

                • WaddellCanseco Sep 1,2012 11:42 am || Up

                  @Kylianna, I admit ignorance to your reference. Is there some incident or pattern of incidents that I should be aware of?

        • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:05 pm || Up

          Keep in mind that ‘not the same’ can also mean ‘hella worse’.

          • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:32 pm || Up

            Theoretically yes, but I basically consider Bush the worst anyone could practically be. My floor for Romney on the economy is Bush.

            • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 1:47 pm || Up

              I can understand that position, but I would disagree with it. I think Romney would try to go further down the deregulation path than Bush did (as Bush did with respect to his father). And that would be really really bad for the economy.

              "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
              • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:40 pm || Up

                I’m not that concerned with regulation or deregulation. I want real, sustainable GDP growth. If deregulation achieves that, then I’m for it, and if regulation achieves that then I’m for it. It depends on the specifics.

                • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 4:21 pm || Up

                  Ok, but when we had a well-regulated economy we had sustainable GDP growth with benefits that reached every American. When we started deregulating we lost the sustainability and the the benefits to the non-wealthy. (Incidentally, the fact that deregulation led to the mortgage excesses that caused this crisis is something upon which Krugman and Posner can agree).

                  Indeed, if you look at the charts here, and particularly the third one and the last one, you’ll see very clearly the cost of the deregulation which began right around 1980.

                  So it really isn’t a policy that may achieve what you want depending upon the specifics. It’s a recipe for continued/increased economic disaster.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:12 am || Up

                  If your point is that the wealthiest Americans have become superrich over the past 30 years while lower middle class people have stayed the same or gotten worse in terms of real income levels I agree. If you’re saying this is due to deregulation, then I would probably agree with that too, if by “deregulation” you’re including the impact of globalization, technology advances that make it easier to circumvent regulations, etc.

                • nevermoor Aug 31,2012 8:58 am || Up

                  I think you are right that it isn’t just deregulation (and globalization is a fair part of that). But deregulation created the business models like Bain which allowed people to get rich without creating anything (and at the expense of the non-rich) instead of by building mammoth companies that built something cool.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 9:54 am || Up

                  This is a giant topic for me on which I have a number of observations:

                  1) The trend over the past 12 or so years of replacing venture capital with private equity is a terrible thing that, as you say makes it more profitable to take a healthy company, leverage it to the hilt with cheap debt to grow ROE and take giant fees than to start a company that builds something cool. Deregulation may have played a part in this, and I’m not sure of the particulars, but to me, the primary culprit is the zero interest rate policy that creates asset inflation without real, sustainable GDP growth. Bush and Greenspan started it, and Obama and Geithner are continuing it. If there were one thing I could change in the US economic policy today, it would be this.

                  2) Other than private equity, there is the travesty of giant banks gambling with taxpayer dollars in a game of “heads I win, tails you lose”, which is often blamed on the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. This also served to create asset inflation by making most home loans FHA loans and making it more profitable to be a giant FDIC insured bank/conduit than a company which built something cool. I personally don’t have a problem with banks also being investment banks, but I do have a problem with the resultant entity getting FDIC insurance. So to me it wasn’t “deregulation” per se that was the problem in this case, it’s the continued government backing of the deregulated entity. If there’s a second thing I’d change about the US economy it would be to revoke FDIC insurance from these entities.

                  3) I am not particularly horrified at the thought of greater income disparity, or even massive income disparity, as long as the lives of everyone are getting better. My perspective on this is that although income levels of lower middle class people have stagnated their lives and opportunities are exponentially better than they were 30 years ago. In past discussions you have stated that you don’t “count” technological advances or other hedonic stuff as “life betterment” and prefer to focus purely on real wages. That’s fine, but I don’t agree. To the extent that greater economic openness has created a climate that makes greater opportunity possible for lower middle class people, I’m for it, even though most of them do not benefit. America is the land of opportunity.

                  3a) The part of income disparity I don’t like is the opportunity disparity….from education to health care to other stuff. I’m not sure how greater regulation would lead to greater opportunity for people, but I’m open to any ideas.

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 31,2012 9:57 am || Up

                  Can you expand a bit on your preferred monetary policy? It sounds as though you are advocating “tight money” even during times of high unemployment and low inflation, but I’m not sure whether I understand correctly.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:13 am || Up

                  I don’t know about “tight” or “loose” money, but I want monetary policy to encourage entrepreneurship first and foremost, as I believe entrepreneurs are what will revitalize the economy, now and forever. We are a country that thrives on business creativity.

                  The problem now is that interest rates are so low that banks have trouble attracting depositors, making it difficult for them to make loans. So, IMO, interest rates should be at a level where savers have an incentive to put some money into bank deposits so that banks have money to make business loans.

                  The CW that raising interest rates tightens the economy doesn’t hold for me in the current situation, because the obstacle to borrowing for your small business isn’t that you can’t afford the interest rate or even slightly higher interest rates, it’s that banks have no money to lend you unless you’re uber-uber-creditworthy. I want at least the uber-creditworthy, and probably the merely creditworthy also to be able to take business loans, expand businesses and hire people.

                  If you combine greater funds for banks to lend, with removing the incentives to make FHA loans that do nothing but artificially inflate home prices, then banks will have greater incentive to make business loans, IMO. You can remove the home loan over business loan favoritism by revoking FDIC insurance to bank/conduit/investment banks that thrive on such loans but are bailed out when they go bad.

                  Once banks go back to making business loans, and interest rates are too high to allow private equity companies from implementing their current scheme, equity capital should return to financing venture projects. Basically I want the monetary policy that enabled the tech boom of the 1990s, not the monetary policy that enabled the housing bubble of the 2000s

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 31,2012 10:17 am || Up

                  Interesting, thanks.

                • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 31,2012 10:34 am || Up

                  Your view is, at least in how I’m reading it, consistent with some of the views described in this article about this report talking about the lack of good jobs. A lot of the report focuses on decreasing worker bargaining power, but also discusses the larger macroeconomics of focusing on controlling inflation rather than focusing on achieving full employment (or, in your words, removing barriers to entrepreneurship, which would achieve fuller employment.)

                  A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:48 am || Up

                  I didn’t find anything objectionable in those readings, but my phrasing and emphasis was slightly different.

                • SPWC Aug 31,2012 10:36 am || Up

                  You call the tech bubble a “boom” and not a “bubble”? Why?

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:50 am || Up

                  Because tech companies do real things to improve the lives of people. Having everyone’s house double in value overnight doesn’t do that.

                • SPWC Aug 31,2012 10:53 am || Up

                  The tech could/would have grown and the internet commerce era would have started, regardless of whether the financial scammers inflated a bubble out of it or not.

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 11:46 am || Up

                  I don’t think tech companies would have grown without venture capital. They didn’t typically take business loans from banks but other non-tech businesses do.

                • colin Aug 31,2012 10:36 am || Up

                  I disagree with your characterization of the slowdown. There is currently an excess of people wanting to save money — this is why interest rates are so low… supply of loans is far exceeding demand. Demand for loans is low because there is no point to build or expand your business when the economy is depressed and consumers aren’t buying anything (’cause they are all saving their money).

                  This is the Keynesian paradox of thrift. My description here comes more or less straight from Krugman. I don’t have time now to find any source or evidence to cite, but maybe someone else can back me up…

                • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 31,2012 10:48 am || Up

                  While the savings rate isn’t nearly as low as it was in 2005-6, it’s hovering around 4%, which isn’t a whole lot. Only some of that is due to increased savings; I would argue more of that is due to the fact that there are a lot of unemployed who aren’t buying anything, and those that are employed are in jobs that play less and less in real wages. To the extent that the savings rate has increased, I’m curious as to how that would be allocated among the wealthy vs. the unwealthy.

                  A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
                • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 31,2012 10:50 am || Up

                  Clarification – when I say “some of that,” I mean to say that some of the reason that people aren’t buying anything.

                  A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
                • ptbnl Aug 31,2012 10:53 am || Up

                  Presumably that doesn’t include Swiss/Cayman Island savings.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:52 am || Up

                  This may also be true, but I think the solution here is fiscal expansion, not easy money. I wanted Obama to spend massively on infrastructure, education, health care and the like. I was disappointed in the stimulus package because 1) It was too little and 2) It didn’t build anything new or inspire people to build anything new. I don’t think easy money by itself can revitalize an economy — look at Japan over the past 30 years.

                • SPWC Aug 31,2012 10:59 am || Up

                  We can’t use the timescales of the past as a template for the future… not without huge efforts to suppress technology and introduce new innovations at artificially extremely slow rollout rates.

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 11:45 am || Up

                  The only problem I’m having with SPWC’s comments is choosing which one to make my tagline

                • SPWC Aug 31,2012 2:02 pm || Up

                  :)

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • colin Aug 31,2012 10:26 am || Up

                  Your point 1 seems relevant to the presidential election, since this is exactly how Romney made his fortune. It’s unlikely that Obama will take action to shut down private equity, but even less likely that Romney would.

                  (Note: I am only focusing on the first sentence of your point 1, and I’m not 100% sure that I agree with your connection to low interest rates.)

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:39 am || Up

                  I don’t want to make private equity illegal. Most companies in the world are “private equity”. I just want to make it more profitable to finance companies that need equity capital to grow than to grow ROE through leverage.

                • nevermoor Aug 31,2012 11:03 am || Up

                  A lot of that is the tax code providing perverse incentives to (1) have crushing debt loads and (2) convert all earnings to a 15% bracket.

                  I agree about not outlawing private equity, but the system is broken, and deregulation is what broke it.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 11:44 am || Up

                  Yes we should fix those tax things if that will help. I’m not up for a blanket denouncement of deregulation though.

                • nevermoor Aug 31,2012 11:56 am || Up

                  I actually don’t mind your FDIC proposal as an alternative, but I think it would have essentially the same effect in the banking industry, because no one would want to have uninsured deposits.

                  Of course, we’d still be screwed by things like Enron.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 12:31 pm || Up

                  Ah, for Enron I want auditors to report to the Board of Directors rather than the management.

                • SPWC Aug 31,2012 10:31 am || Up

                  (1)- the trend is over the last 30 years or so, not 12. The initial deregulation(s) that allowed Milken to issue junk bonds and Romney and “Creative Destruction” shitheads free reign to use them came from the early years of the Reagan administration, IIRC.

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 10:41 am || Up

                  True. The deregulation trend started in the 1980s. But the leveraged equity trend started with the easy money of Bush/Greenspan.

                • DFA Aug 31,2012 12:54 pm || Up

                  To the extent that greater economic openness has created a climate that makes greater opportunity possible for lower middle class people, I’m for it, even though most of them do not benefit. America is the land of opportunity.

                  Then why is there less mobility from poor to middle class and middle class to wealthy and wealthy to not than at any other time since WWII?

                  In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
                • colin Aug 31,2012 1:10 pm || Up

                  Right. I am slightly sympathetic to the argument that large inequality is ok so long as everybody’s quality of life is going up (i.e. rich get way richer, but the poor are getting richer too). But you have to own up to the empirical observation that “equality of opportunity” is inversely correlated with income inequality (and the US is currently lagging other wealthy nations in both categories).

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 2:14 pm || Up

                  Yes we do. There’s also the problem of inequality in political influence.

                • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 1:12 pm || Up

                  This is a very good question. I don’t really know. My speculative guesses are:

                  1) Workers have become more fungible with globalization and technological advances
                  2) Education system isn’t doing its job
                  3) There are government incentives for people to spend rather than accumulate wealth unless they’re very rich
                  4) As entrepreneurship becomes increasingly important relative to working up the corporate ladder, there is more risk in accumulating wealth and therefore more people go bankrupt
                  5) Health care costs are spiraling up, effectively a regressive tax
                  6) Easy money policy has reduced the value of the US Dollar, making transportation costs rise, also an effective regressive tax
                  7) Easy money has increased housing costs, also an effective regressive tax

                  I’m not sure to what extent these things are actually true or relevant, but those are my guesses.

                • DFA Aug 31,2012 7:21 pm || Up

                  1) if workers were more fungible than their marginal product would more similar and wages would be similar as well because marginal product should equal wages in classic economics. Secondly if workers were more fungible now then you would see more mobility in the system that we have with wide disparity since a worker from the bottom wouldn’t be that different from a worker at the top.

                  2) Inequality is a key indicator or areas with poor education systems

                  3) This may be true, but income inequality is not the same as wealth inequality. Further, the contention is that income inequality is ok because there is mobility, but this contradicts your original point.

                  4) This is factually inaccurate because there is less downward mobility for the rich today.

                  5 – 7 ) Regressive taxes are bad, but they are a part of the greater economic openness that you claim is good and they in your opinion hurt mobility.

                  Inequality is fine as long as there is a lot of mobility. The problem is that inequality is increasing as mobility decreases. I have seen no evidence that suggest that there are ever societies with massive inequality that have a lot of mobility. Mobility is the most important thing that we should be focusing on in the economy and the Romney Ryan economic policies will effectively crush mobility by destroying the safety net that prevents generations from failing just because of the circumstances to which they were born. This is one of the reasons I support a massive estate tax.

                  In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
                • dmoas Aug 31,2012 7:29 pm || Up

                  Re: a massive estate tax. I’d be okay with that if it was scaled such that it would be to the recipients’ benefit if the deceased spreads the wealth around (i.e. little to no tax on smaller amounts and as you go upward it gets higher similar to the income tax system).

                • DFA Aug 31,2012 9:03 pm || Up

                  yeah right now there is no tax on anything less than 2.5m IIRC

                  In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
                • dmoas Aug 31,2012 11:28 pm || Up

                  I’d think something closer to the average home should be no tax and then scaled up exponentially from there. By 2.5m, I’m okay with a more extreme hit, but all of that is based on the amount receiving instead of the initial grand total.

                • WaddellCanseco Sep 1,2012 10:30 am || Up

                  I didn’t mean to imply that I thought these things were good or bad. I was just trying to take guesses to answer your question.

                  1) You’re right about this. I should have said that “most” workers have become more fungible, but those few with highly sought after skills are still not fungible.

                  2) I think we agree

                  3) I think we agree that lack of mobility is bad

                  4) I don’t see what entrepreneurship has to do with “the rich”. Entrepreneurs can come from almost any income level and rich people have lots of different occupations and lots of them have no occupation

                  5) I disagree that regressive taxes have anything to do with economic openness. You can have regressive taxes in an open or closed economy. I’ve provided by guess for each regressive tax what I think might be the cause.

            • SPWC Aug 30,2012 2:37 pm || Up

              I have to disagree.

              If Bush is a floor, he’s not the bottom floor of our building… not by a longshot!

              \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
              • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:41 pm || Up

                I guess that would be the Great Depression, but I don’t see a president as being capable of causing one.

        • AV Sep 4,2012 8:23 am || Up

          so i’ve been thinking about this comment for a few days and a similar, though way more frightening, idea keeps popping into my head. i understand that your floor on the economy is bush, and that romney couldn’t do worse (in your opinion). what about in a geopolitical crisis? where is your romney floor on that? because that’s where my fear threshold kicks in and i’m about as articulate as, oh hellz no. the dude has some outlandish understandings about what he and his people are expected and can be expected to do. and when i pair that with 4 years of, well, every day could be a 9/11 (more than a 9/29), and bush was machiavellian at best and upsidedown-children’s-book-reading at worst, but… romney. oof. why do i keep picturing him mouthing (yes, i know… cross-faith reference but you’ll see my point), “it’s the rapture!” while pushing on the button with both hands, or somesuch? overblown example, sure. but the likelihood of some horrible event is not minimal, and in that circumstance, i would want someone making decisions… “of this earth” (by which i refer to both the someone and the decision). in that light, i do not see bush as the floor. no, he’s in my mind quite the middle ground there. and i would expect obama to be kind of a high water mark.

          *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
          • dmoas Sep 4,2012 10:37 am || Up

            I fear Romney pushing the button much less than I fear is inability to control/lead the guys behind him pushing him out of the way to push the button.

    • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 3:45 pm || Up

      I have a reason:

      My friend works in the administration. He would continue to have a job.

      BOOM! case closed.

      I have $5. No I don\'t.
      • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:58 pm || Up

        Is he an A’s fan?

        • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 4:00 pm || Up

          I don’t think he has anything against the A’s.

          I have $5. No I don\'t.
          • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:12 am || Up

            OK, then cool.

            • Future Ed Aug 31,2012 2:17 pm || Up

              He is from fresno and a giants fan. He even was the bullpen catcher at Cal when he was there.

              But he has kinda lost touch. In 2008, just after the election I talked to him on on the phone and mentioned tim lincecum and cy young chances or something.

              He didn’t know who that was. He said he had been busy that year.

              I have $5. No I don\'t.
              • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 4:30 pm || Up

                Good, now I can say I know someone who knows someone

  6. nobody in particular Aug 29,2012 12:27 pm

    I think each Republican speaker should just close every speech at the convention by apoplectically bellowing “Kill all the lazy, shiftless welfare n*gg*rs and the godless homos too!!!!” and frothing slightly at the mouth while glaring sociopathically into the camera.

    Because whatever they said leading up to that line, they really meant that last part.

    Never suck on a Blow Pop with the microphone open.
    • beebo Aug 29,2012 12:45 pm || Up

      Or, you know, something like this, perhaps?

      • nobody in particular Aug 29,2012 1:09 pm || Up

        hahahahaha, awesome!!!!! The only way they could top that would be a star-studded video tribute to George Lincoln Rockwell tonight.

        Never suck on a Blow Pop with the microphone open.
      • WaddellCanseco Aug 29,2012 2:06 pm || Up

        I laughed

  7. FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 29,2012 1:04 pm

    Today’s Slussbeat:

    * Coco’s back in the lineup and leading off
    * Petaluma Little League team to be honored at Friday’s game
    * Jonny Gomes hopes to play long enough that a Petaluma kid to join him on a big league roster (yeah)
    * A’s Arizona Fall League players: Infielders Grant Green and Miles Head, catcher Max Stassi, and pitchers Gary Daley, Shawn Haviland, Brett Hunter and James Simmons

    "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
    • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 1:15 pm || Up

      BOO A’s! Move the kids to Saturday!

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 29,2012 1:17 pm || Up

        Sorry, but Saturday is already booked for the guy who played Bernie’s corpse.

        "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
        • dmoas Aug 29,2012 2:08 pm || Up

          They could walk him out to the mound and make his body throw the first pitch.

      • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 1:35 pm || Up

        this season ticket holder is fine with the friday tribute.

        I have $5. No I don\'t.
        • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 1:36 pm || Up

          Indeed I am.

          If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
          • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 1:42 pm || Up

            speaking of, did you ever hear back about my september 4( i think) request?

            I may have marked all comments as read and missed it.

            I have $5. No I don\'t.
            • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 1:56 pm || Up

              Haven’t heard anything, but I’ve just sent a follow-up request.

              If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
              • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 1:58 pm || Up

                cool

                I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 2:26 pm || Up

                  Just got the reply – sorry for the delay, sorry they’re not available.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 3:00 pm || Up

                  ok then, cool.

                  Next year.

                  Or do you know if any dates on the previous list is available?

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 3:27 pm || Up

                  I’ll check.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • ptbnl Sep 2,2012 7:19 pm || Up

                  The front row pair of seats are still available for the Mariners series:

                  9/28 @ 7:05
                  9/29 @ 1:05
                  9/30 @ 1:05

                  Same deal as always.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • oblique Sep 2,2012 9:22 pm || Up

                  I may be up for 9/28 or 9/30, if either is left after Future Ed has spoken.

                • Future Ed Sep 3,2012 8:30 am || Up

                  9/28 is the only day I could make it. I need to check it out, I will get back to you later, but if you know you can do it grab it. It depends on a friends availability.

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • Glorious Mundy Sep 3,2012 10:15 am || Up

                  I would love to purchase 9/29, if that remains a possibility.

                • Glorious Mundy Sep 3,2012 10:37 am || Up

                  Or 9/30, if oblique ends up not wanting them.

                • ptbnl Sep 3,2012 5:33 pm || Up

                  How about if I get 9/29 for Glorious Mundy and 9/30 for oblique now, and 9/28 if and when Future Ed confirms?

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • oblique Sep 3,2012 7:11 pm || Up

                  Confirmed – 9/30 would be lovely.

                • Glorious Mundy Sep 3,2012 9:07 pm || Up

                  Perfect. Thank you so much!

                • Future Ed Sep 3,2012 9:12 pm || Up

                  i will let you know tomorrow, hopefully.

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • ptbnl Sep 6,2012 6:47 pm || Up

                  Any decision? I leave for 2 weeks in Yurp on Tuesday so I’d like to get these sorted over the weekend.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • Ed Sep 6,2012 9:01 pm || Up

                  hi, yes a decision.

                  No on the tickets. SOrry to mux it up for so long.

                  Next year. That is a bad day for me.

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • oblique Sep 4,2012 10:21 am || Up

                  Let me know when it’s appropriate to do so (or if it is already), and I’ll paypal you.

                • Glorious Mundy Sep 6,2012 9:04 pm || Up

                  I also stand ready to paypal you, ptbnl.

                • ptbnl Sep 6,2012 9:48 pm || Up

                  I’ll let you both know when I have the tickets in hand – then I’ll need paypal + mailing address.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • ptbnl Sep 8,2012 1:52 pm || Up

                  OK – tickets all lined up.

                  Please paypal $85 to jdborrill at lbl dot gov and include the mailing address you want me to send the tickets to.

                  Thanks.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • Glorious Mundy Sep 8,2012 1:58 pm || Up

                  Sent!

                • ptbnl Sep 8,2012 2:05 pm || Up

                  Received – many thanks.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • Glorious Mundy Sep 8,2012 2:06 pm || Up

                  All thanks are to you. This an amazing connection you have cultivated, and it’s very kind of you to share.

                • ptbnl Sep 9,2012 11:21 pm || Up

                  Received – thanks.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • ptbnl Sep 11,2012 8:14 am || Up

                  Tickets are in the mail – please let me know when you get them.

                  And a shout-out to George, one of the holders of the plan, who tells me he now comes by the Kraut once in a while.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • Glorious Mundy Sep 13,2012 10:53 pm || Up

                  Tickets have arrived.

                • oblique Sep 14,2012 10:17 pm || Up

                  Got ’em!

                • ptbnl Sep 15,2012 1:46 am || Up

                  Excellent – thanks for the confirmations and enjoy the games.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • oblique Sep 16,2012 8:11 am || Up

                  What GM said – thank you for providing this hook-up!

    • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 1:37 pm || Up

      Fucking cheap ass A’s regarfing the Petaluma LL

      nd then watch the game in luxury suites – courtesy of outfielder Jonny Gomes.

      I have $5. No I don\'t.
    • DFA Aug 29,2012 1:41 pm || Up

      holy shit james simmons and brett hunter are still alive?

      In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
    • 5Aces Aug 29,2012 3:11 pm || Up

      ok, so remind my work beat brain. If GG is going to the fall league that means he isnt coming to Oakland when rosters expand..amIright?

      Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it? -Steve McCatty
  8. Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 1:19 pm
      • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 1:30 pm || Up

        Indeed. No answers yet.

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 1:33 pm || Up

          His verification photo. Lefthanded mouse FTW.

          • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 1:38 pm || Up

            As a lefty myself, I just learned to adapt on that one.

            "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
            • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 1:40 pm || Up

              Same here.

              • oblique Aug 29,2012 2:05 pm || Up

                As a righty, I’ve actually adapted to using a lefty mouse sometimes, to help with the RSI.

                • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 29,2012 2:09 pm || Up

                  As a righty who might get outnumbered at home, depending on how PDXSpawn2 turns out, I need to do this.

                  A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
                • oblique Aug 29,2012 2:12 pm || Up

                  And my lefty wife uses a righty mouse.

                  I don’t even want to know what Urban Dictionary has to say about that.

                • colin Aug 29,2012 2:27 pm || Up

                  One of the grad students I work with does that.

            • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 1:45 pm || Up

              when you are the most powerful person in the world…adapting? meh

              I have $5. No I don\'t.
              • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 2:18 pm || Up

                Sure, but at this point it would be harder to adapt back.

                "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
            • dmoas Aug 29,2012 2:11 pm || Up

              Yup. It actually feels awkward to use it with my right hand.

    • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 29,2012 2:05 pm || Up

      Proposition: Will the number of questions about legalizing marijuana exceed the number of questions about every other subject combined?

      "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
    • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 2:12 pm || Up

      The definition of reddit:

      [–]CoCo26 35 points 29 minutes ago*
      | And although their will be occasional disagreements
      *there
      I just corrected the President of the United States grammar.

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • Dial C for Concupiscence Aug 29,2012 2:54 pm || Up

        I just corrected the President of the United States grammar.

        *States’

    • brian.only Aug 29,2012 2:45 pm || Up

      Such a savvy move.

  9. AV Aug 29,2012 1:33 pm

    here we go. barça-madrid for the supercopa.

    *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
    • AV Aug 29,2012 1:38 pm || Up

      drinking game. alexis in the box and he dives = have a beer. higuaín one-on-one with the goalie and he blows it = have a shot.

      *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
      • AV Aug 29,2012 1:43 pm || Up

        [sobers up.]

        *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
        • AV Aug 29,2012 1:43 pm || Up

          and just as quickly alexis gets me back on track.

          *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
          • AV Aug 29,2012 1:44 pm || Up

            he’s a FKing embarrassment to my beloved neighbors.

            *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
            • AV Aug 29,2012 1:51 pm || Up

              well this got ugly in a hurry.

              *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
              • AV Aug 29,2012 1:53 pm || Up

                and i’m heading toward alcohol poisoning.

                *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • AV Aug 29,2012 1:57 pm || Up

                  the ref is merciful. nevertheless, he’s still going to star in a very loving gif with pepe in 5, 4, 3…

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 2:00 pm || Up

                  Red card just now?

                • AV Aug 29,2012 2:03 pm || Up

                  yep. cristiano was running away with it and got tackled like in US football.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • AV Aug 29,2012 2:04 pm || Up

                  and while sanchez already got subbed off, pipita is keeping me in cups, no problem.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 2:04 pm || Up

                  Yeah, that was pretty embarrassing to watch, even as a neutral.

                • AV Aug 29,2012 2:06 pm || Up

                  i wish you were calling the game then. jorge ramos on ESPN spanish is decidedly pro cristiano + whoever the 10 around him.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 2:08 pm || Up

                  I meant embarrassing for Barca. I am a notorious Cristiano apologist, however, having married into a Portuguese family.

                • AV Aug 29,2012 2:10 pm || Up

                  i knew what you meant by embarrassment, but your definition of neutral is new to me.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • AV Aug 29,2012 2:16 pm || Up

                  OK, he’s pro messi too.

                  WOW.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • AV Aug 29,2012 2:16 pm || Up

                  damn. meant to spoil, not block.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 2:19 pm || Up

                  Fixed.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 2:32 pm || Up

                  That was SWEET.

                • AV Aug 29,2012 3:09 pm || Up

                  gonzaLOL. even casilla is drinking after that one.

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 3:21 pm || Up

                  Oh, Montoya.

                • AV Aug 29,2012 3:22 pm || Up

                  oh, lio. lio lio lio. the 91:30 wasn’t his, but the 92:15 one…

                  *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
            • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 2:24 pm || Up

              Just saw the replay. That dive casts shame on the entire Southern Cone.

      • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 3:09 pm || Up

        Drink.

  10. PDXAthleticsfan Aug 29,2012 2:18 pm
    A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
    • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 29,2012 2:19 pm || Up

      That would be sugar, not sugal.

      A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
    • ptbnl Aug 29,2012 2:20 pm || Up

      By the absorption and/or emission lines the sugar leaves in the spectrum of the starlight passing through the cloud.

      If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
      • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 29,2012 2:25 pm || Up

        Thanks. My cousin has been doing some work on figuring out the make-up of exo-planets and it just is mind-boggling that we can be so precise as to figure that out from so far away. I get it, but it’s still amazing.

        A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
    • dmoas Aug 29,2012 2:21 pm || Up

      I’d imagine there would need to be a shit ton of that molecule around.

      • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 29,2012 2:27 pm || Up

        Can you imagine the street value of that cloud?

        A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
        • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 2:31 pm || Up

  11. Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 2:49 pm

    Ric Bucher, ESPN NBA analyst and former Warriors beat writer for the Merc will be the co-host on the Brandon Tierney shitshow on THE GAME. Now I’m convinced that they’re getting the Warriors, or at least that they think they’re getting them.

    He’s excellent on the NBA, FWIW. Not sure if he knows a damn thing about baseball.

    • Future Ed Aug 29,2012 3:02 pm || Up

      nobody on the radio is very good about baseball as far as I can tell.

      I have $5. No I don\'t.
  12. JamesV Aug 29,2012 2:54 pm

    No matter how irrelevant Third Eye Blind may be these days, that’s some quality skewering right there:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephan-jenkins/third-eye-blind-rnc_b_1839576.html

    • Dial C for Concupiscence Aug 29,2012 2:57 pm || Up

      I still like Third Eye Blind.

      • JamesV Aug 29,2012 3:05 pm || Up

        I don’t think I’ve listened to anything new by them in close to a decade. Well, whenever Blue came out.

    • colin Aug 29,2012 3:02 pm || Up

      My fiancee had an entire scrapbook devoted to Stephen Jenkins back when she was in high school.

    • dmoas Aug 29,2012 3:08 pm || Up

      I don’t know. I think I’d play at their convention. I’d just make sure I’d play a ton of songs that outright condemn them all. All of which would be played to a catchy beat with catchy wordplay that they’d walk away humming and singing to themselves.

      • JamesV Aug 29,2012 3:17 pm || Up

        BOOOOORRRRNNNN IN THE USAAAAAAAA!

      • andeux Aug 29,2012 3:24 pm || Up

        See item 8 though it seems it was unintentional.

        TINSTAAFK
    • Kylianna Aug 29,2012 3:22 pm || Up

      I like Third Eye Blind. And one of my homegirls is pulling a reverse-Kyli and flying out here from England to see them on tour. They still have fans.

      • futwork Aug 30,2012 4:57 pm || Up

        They played a free concert after a Saturday night Nationals game this month. I can verify that they’re as awesome as ever.

      • MikeV Aug 30,2012 5:24 pm || Up

        reverse-Kyli? Is that some sort of sex act?

        And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

        Thanks, and go As.

        • DFA Aug 31,2012 1:46 pm || Up

          hawt

          In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor
        • SPWC Aug 31,2012 2:04 pm || Up

          Yes, but like that of the black widow spider, only the female lives all the way through it.

          \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
          • MikeV Aug 31,2012 2:06 pm || Up

            Still tempting.

            And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

            Thanks, and go As.

  13. doctorK Aug 29,2012 3:08 pm
    • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 3:11 pm || Up

      That’s terrible.

    • dmoas Aug 29,2012 3:15 pm || Up

      I’m kind of at odds with that one. I kind of side with the old man, but only to an extent. I think the real failure was not addressing this years ago when he was first hired, but with all those available exemptions you’d think someone who had been working there X amount of years without incident would be allowed some sort of fast tracking.

  14. brian.only Aug 29,2012 3:19 pm

    Regarding the powder keg issue of abortion I think the Republicans may be better off telling people to “go fuck yourself” when asked about Akin than trying to deflect or answer the them. EEEESH.

    • Kylianna Aug 29,2012 3:28 pm || Up

      I’ve been waiting to see a GOP politician respond to the Akin issue without giving an answer that is vile/creepy/horrifying/lacks science.

      I think I’ll be waiting a long, long time.

      At least now it’s becoming clear that Akin is the trend, not the exception. And now I’mma go throw up in disgust.

      • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 29,2012 4:06 pm || Up

        Colbert last night had a hilarious (except for the hideousness) bit which included a “defense” from Rep. Steve King, who said he had never heard of anyone getting pregnant via rape or incest, so it was OK to remove rape/incest exemptions from anti-abortion laws. Then Colbert showed a clip of Rep. King talking about an incest pregnancy scenario one year earlier.

        "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
      • SPWC Aug 29,2012 4:33 pm || Up

        They want to own the non-white males like slaves again. That’s what the bastards pine for.

        They want the two genders to be Male and Stepford Sperm Depository Baby Machine Shut Up.

        They’re not going to win, but they’re going to blow diarrhea all over the country on their long slow way out.

        \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
      • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:59 pm || Up

        Todd Akin is my congressman. I think I may have voted for him.

        • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 4:09 pm || Up

          I hope you’re reconsidering that decision.

          • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 8:15 am || Up

            I really don’t remember whether I voted for him or not, but there’s no way I would again. At the time he seemed similar to Jim Talent, who was a generic unimpressive suburban rich guy. My district is composed largely of such people.

            • SPWC Aug 31,2012 9:22 am || Up

              how do generic unimpressive suburban rich people make you feel?

              They make me feel sad and empty, and frustrated with the lack of common cultural references and difficulty I have communicating with them.

              \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
              • WaddellCanseco Aug 31,2012 9:30 am || Up

                I’m pretty happy with where I live. These people are generally nice, solid citizens. St Louisans love baseball so I have at least one thing I can discuss with almost anyone here.

  15. nevermoor Aug 29,2012 3:49 pm

    Relevant to Krugman’s point:

    Conservative economist tries, and fails, to prove that Romney’s plan can pay for itself.

    And not only does the analysis fail the old algebra test, the variables he plugs in are bullshit.

    Romney: either lying or incompetent.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • JediLeroy Aug 29,2012 8:45 pm || Up

      I disagree with you guys, but it’s not worth the time or effort to argue.

      az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
      • Glorious Mundy Aug 29,2012 8:51 pm || Up

        Could you text George Will and ask him to argue for you?

        • JediLeroy Aug 29,2012 9:17 pm || Up

          He can’t receive texts on his rotary phone.

          az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde
          • Poppy Aug 29,2012 9:44 pm || Up

            You can barter with oblique to do a banner fly-over! (Might take a lot of bannerage, though…)

            There's a wild thing in the woolshed and it's keeping me awake at night.
      • nevermoor Aug 29,2012 11:14 pm || Up

        I’d be interested to hear why you think that math adds up (unless you mean the larger point, in which case I’m not surprised)

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 2:07 pm || Up
          "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
  16. beebo Aug 30,2012 10:24 am
    • sslinger Aug 30,2012 10:27 am || Up

      That is priceless.

      • AV Aug 30,2012 10:33 am || Up

        um… the price is RIGHT THERE!

        *i’m* AV. alex vause. put this loon in psych before she hurts someone.
    • dmoas Aug 30,2012 10:39 am || Up

      Yes… yes they did. Good for them for finally admitting it.

  17. nevermoor Aug 30,2012 12:50 pm

    Holy crap, this lying stuff might be getting traction.

    Politicians have probably been exaggerating since the days of ancient Rome, but this year there has been a quantum leap and it is starting to make the media uncomfortable. Ryan’s speech may be the straw that broke the camel’s back. Last night Ryan said about Obama: “He created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.” Jonathan Bernstein noted the use of “they.” Ryan was on the commission and successfully convinced the House Republicans to vote it down. So Bernstein is pointing out that Ryan is blaming Obama for killing a plan that he himself actually killed, not Obama. Also in his speech, Ryan blamed Obama for closing an auto plant in his home town that was actually closed during the Bush administration. Bernstein concludes with: “the proper response [is] … to call the speaker out for telling flat-out lies.” These are extremely sharp words to find in a major newspaper (the Washington Post) and an encouraging sign. It is the primary job of the press and media to present the truth, and when any politician lies, Democrat, Republican, or other, they should be called on it.

    Another newspaper that has had enough is the Los Angeles Times where a headline read: “Rick Santorum repeats inaccurate welfare attack on Obama.” Santorum said that Obama had waived the work requirement for welfare recipients. In fact, he did no such thing. What he did was say he would allow states to experiment with new ways to fulfill the work requirement–something Republican governors had been pleading for.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 12:52 pm || Up

      Also, this is good work by Ezra.

      Hard to read this and not come off convinced that something has changed. For example:

      After rereading Ryan’s speech, I went back to Sarah Palin’s 2008 convention address. Perhaps, I thought, this is how these speeches always are. But Palin’s criticisms, agree or disagree, held up. “This is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state Senate.” True. She accused Obama of wanting to “make government bigger” and of intending to “take more of your money.” That’s not how the Obama campaign would have explained its intentions, but the facts are the facts, and they did have plans to grow the size of government and raise more in tax revenues. Palin said that “terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay” and “he wants to meet them without preconditions,” which was true enough.

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:07 pm || Up

        The Republicans certainly aren’t seizing the opportunity that the bad economy has given them. I’m so disappointed they couldn’t do better than Romney.

        • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:10 pm || Up

          It was a very bad field. If Romney loses, though, the race for the 2016 nomination could be very interesting. A Ryan-Christie-Condi-Jeb race would be a very interesting campaign and could produce a great candidate.

          • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:20 pm || Up

            I’m not seeing where a great candidate would come out of that set.

            • MikeV Aug 30,2012 1:21 pm || Up

              yeah.

              And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

              Thanks, and go As.

            • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:23 pm || Up

              Condi would be a great candidate. Jeb would be a very good candidate, if America could forgive him for his last name. The other two make my skin crawl, but I’m just throwing them in because they are clearly top contenders.

              • MikeV Aug 30,2012 1:30 pm || Up

                Jeb?

                And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

                Thanks, and go As.

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:35 pm || Up

                  Definitely. Fairly moderate, reasonably popular former governor of Florida, and god knows Americans don’t have a problem with dynasty politicians in general.

                • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 1:49 pm || Up

                  It would be interesting to see what a primary did to the first point. Romney, for example, was once a fairly moderate reasonably popular former governor.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:57 pm || Up

                  Yes, but Romney’s more brazen than most politicians when it comes to lying and disguising his principles. It would be fun to watch.

                • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 2:01 pm || Up

                  I’m not sure that’s true. See Ryan, Paul.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 2:02 pm || Up

                  Good point.

                • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 2:01 pm || Up

                  Yeah, the primaries seems to take moderates and chuck them full-on into the right to get that first level of support needed for the nomination.

                • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:58 pm || Up

                  America does, however, have a problem with Florida.

                • SPWC Aug 30,2012 2:47 pm || Up

                  Jeb only looks good in comparison to how shitty the baseline has fallen over the last decade.

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
              • Kylianna Aug 30,2012 1:34 pm || Up

                …Jeb is better than his brother, I suppose.

                That’s not really placing him in ‘very good’ territory, though.

              • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 1:49 pm || Up

                Why do you like Condi? I can’t imagine a universe in which I want someone who played such an important role in pre-9/11 terrorism prevention and post-9/11 foreign wars anywhere near the oval office. I don’t know anything about where she would stand on other issues though.

                "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:52 pm || Up

                  I like her relative to other Republicans on everything other than foreign policy, and I still harbor hope that she is naturally a Bush I foreign policy type, not a Bush II type. I realize that this is not entirely rational in the face of the available evidence.

            • colin Aug 30,2012 1:25 pm || Up

              It turns out that if you toss all four of them in a blender, FDR comes out. Unexpected but true!

              • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:26 pm || Up

                We’ll never know unless we try. You have four years to design a blender that big.

                • PDXAthleticsfan Aug 30,2012 1:31 pm || Up

                  ” frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen>

                  A soliloquy of fresh-sounding ideas which would probably be disastrous.
            • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 1:34 pm || Up

              well, not a good president, but Jeb will be a great candidate, Christie could be, Ryan has to walk a tight rope and not go too far off the deep end in the 2012 campaign. I think Rice would be a terrible candidate and I don’t think she will ever run

              I have $5. No I don\'t.
              • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:37 pm || Up

                Did you see her speech last night? I think she might run, and she could be very good at it. It would take a miracle for her to get the nomination though.

                • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 1:53 pm || Up

                  I didn’t. But she has never come off previously as someone with the stamina to be a shiny happy glad hander that you need to be to get through Iowa and New Hampshire

                  I have $5. No I don\'t.
                • batgirl Aug 30,2012 7:56 pm || Up

                  I think she would more likely want to be president of the NCAA than the United States.

              • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:41 pm || Up

                I don’t see Rice every getting past the Iraq debacle though. She’ll have to defend it all over again and won’t be able to talk about anything else. I really like Christie as a budget balancing governor, much like Jay Nixon in my home state of Missouri.

                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:44 pm || Up

                  That plus “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the U.S.” would be her big problem in the general, no doubt. I think she is very smart and personally appealing though, and has reasonable positions on most issues. I hope she runs.

                • ptbnl Aug 30,2012 1:46 pm || Up
                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • SPWC Aug 30,2012 2:52 pm || Up

                  that ball was crushed to deeep left field and gone!

                  \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:42 pm || Up

                  Exactly

              • colin Aug 30,2012 1:44 pm || Up

                She’s pro-choice, so automatically disqualified from the Republican nomination.

                • ptbnl Aug 30,2012 1:47 pm || Up

                  Not if she does a Romney.

                  If this is His will, He's a son of a bitch.
                • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:48 pm || Up

                  In my scenario, there would have to be a mild intra-party counterrevolution against the Evangelical wing, along with a collective decision that they need a woman to defeat Hillary.

                • dmoas Aug 30,2012 2:02 pm || Up

                  The more centralist part would do well to split into a new middle ground party, adsorb some of the more moderate liberal ideas and pander directly to the middle (like they all try to do anyway) while siphoning from both sides. They might actually be able to do as they say given that they’re excluding the fringes.

              • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 1:54 pm || Up

                Christie is an overrated idiot to nearly the same extent Ryan is (or, after that speech, was). The balanced budget stuff required draconian and counterproductive cuts (PLUS tax increases). Refusing to let DC and NY buy a new tunnel into NJ might be the single dumbest infrastructure decision in the last decade. And yelling at people for things that are your fault is not leadership. At least Steve Jobs actually did some good along with being a dick. Also, stuff like this would screw him in primary season.

                "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
                • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 3:43 pm || Up

                  Hee. I was expecting something like this.

                • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 4:33 pm || Up

                  I can’t be particularly calm about Christie. Dude pisses me off.

                  "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
        • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 30,2012 1:27 pm || Up

          It really points to the fallacy of strong candidates opting not to run because an incumbent is perceived as destined for re-election. This was I think the case when the GOP candidates were positioning themselves to run long before the first primaries, when folks like Christie and Jeb Bush opted out. By the time they might have reconsidered, all the money and endorsements had already lined up behind others.

          Bill Clinton has a similar dynamic to thank for having won the ’92 Democratic nomination.

          "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
          • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:31 pm || Up

            That’s right, but I also think it’s a function of the Republicans not having a crop of top-notch candidates who would have been ready this year, either because of inexperience, obscurity, or Bush-taint. For example, neither Condi nor Jeb would have been viable this close to the W years, but I think both will be formidable in 2016.

            • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 30,2012 1:34 pm || Up

              I’m of the opinion that most of the time, running and losing is a plus to a candidate’s chances of winning in a subsequent national election (Rick Perry, your mileage may vary).

              "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
              • futwork Aug 30,2012 5:12 pm || Up

                Yeah, Huckabee could’ve cleaned up this time if he hadn’t gotten comfy at Fox News.

            • Future Ed Aug 30,2012 1:48 pm || Up

              I have nothing to back this up, but Bush 43’s preseidency was a rollercoaster for popularity as I remember.

              By September 2011, I thought he might even quit. (which he did less than 2 weeks into the month for a few hours).

              Then he got super popular. Forcing potential candidates like Kerry and Clinto to vote for his agenda (war et al) by 04 his popularity was waning enough to almost win with a ham sandwich running for the dems.

              then he was popular again, but tried to push SS privatization and never recovered.

              My impression only, not facts.

              I have $5. No I don\'t.
              • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 1:54 pm || Up

                His popularity went from very low, to very high right after 9/11, then steadily declined all the way to the mid-20s. Even on the day of his reelect, he was sub-50%.

          • WaddellCanseco Aug 30,2012 1:43 pm || Up

            Yup. Clinton took the presidency when no one else wanted it. Nobody particularly liked him and so Perot was briefly credible, but he won. It just shows that if you run you have a chance.

    • dmoas Aug 30,2012 1:58 pm || Up

      A quantum leap doesn’t sound so bad. I’m thinking he’s not intending the real “quantum” meaning there. But great show.

  18. nevermoor Aug 30,2012 1:58 pm

    God I hope K-Thug is right.

    It’s starting to look, however, as if the life cycle of the Ryan myth is proving a lot shorter than the Bush version. Even people who were fanatical Bush defenders and Krugman-haters seem to have had enough of Ryan’s shtick, thanks to the most dishonest convention speech ever.

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 2:02 pm || Up

      John Cole thinks so. So does David Firestone.

      This could prove to be a good thing.

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 2:04 pm || Up

        He’s a dangerous guy. It would be great for the country if he destroys his reputation in a losing effort.

        • FreeSeatUpgrade Aug 30,2012 2:09 pm || Up

          Maybe he’ll get Eagleton’d.

          "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."
  19. nevermoor Aug 30,2012 2:17 pm
    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • nevermoor Aug 30,2012 2:20 pm || Up

      In other A’s news, Grant is an idiot. Giambi was BIG NEWS around these parts. Or would have been, anyway, if we had noticed.

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • andeux Aug 30,2012 2:28 pm || Up

        If there was a sequel to Moneyball, it would probably be an indie film in which Billy Beane follows Kyle Blanks around all creepy-like, waiting for him to get waived.

        Vincent Gallo should totally make that movie (starring himself as Beane of course).

        Also, learn how to use the subjunctive.

        TINSTAAFK
      • Dial C for Concupiscence Aug 30,2012 2:34 pm || Up

        I’ve actively tried to forget the Giambi Re-up. Thanks for opening old wounds, Grant. That’s how infections happen!

  20. SPWC Aug 30,2012 2:45 pm

    Friends, one of my inner voices just told me that the Republicans and the social rightists are engaged in the mass chanting of the Adam Savage mantra:

    “I reject your reality and replace it with my own,”

    They’re desperate for it to work, because if it doesn’t, everything they’ve ever believed in will be swept away within a generation or two, only to hang on in rural enclaves of lingering obsolescence.

    \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
    • Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 2:48 pm || Up

      Relevant:

      “The demographics race we’re losing badly,” said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.). “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  21. Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 3:04 pm

    Oh God.

    • JamesV Aug 30,2012 3:09 pm || Up

      LOL, Romney. And isn’t that socialism?

    • dmoas Aug 30,2012 3:14 pm || Up

      I feel like Obama’s “promise” is much more obtainable than Romney’s.

  22. nevermoor Aug 30,2012 4:51 pm
    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • colin Aug 30,2012 7:08 pm || Up

      I hadn’t heard anything about it, until I saw a random headline somewhere on the intertubes (slate?) and then finally followed this link. Yay for being a post-doc and not giving a shit about anything class-related!

  23. Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 5:52 pm
  24. Glorious Mundy Aug 30,2012 7:07 pm

    Either I’m hallucinating, or Zombie Clint Eastwood is giving one of the craziest convention speeches of all time.

    • JamesV Aug 30,2012 7:22 pm || Up

      • beebo Aug 31,2012 10:06 am || Up

        Strangely, Twitter has suspended that account as of this morning.

    • Poppy Aug 30,2012 8:28 pm || Up

      I shared that hallucination briefly while looking for the Niners game.

      There's a wild thing in the woolshed and it's keeping me awake at night.
    • andeux Aug 31,2012 9:08 am || Up

      TINSTAAFK
    • Glorious Mundy Aug 31,2012 9:34 am || Up

      Obama’s press secretary got off the best line of the night:

      “Referring all questions on this to Salvador Dali.”

      • nevermoor Aug 31,2012 11:05 am || Up

        Yeah, serious ASVD material.

        "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • nevermoor Aug 31,2012 11:07 am || Up

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • SPWC Aug 31,2012 11:36 am || Up

        Bouie’s quote is priceless.

        \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
  25. colin Aug 30,2012 7:27 pm

    Hey nm, do you know anyone named Sarah Stillman, who went to college with you for approximately the same years?

  26. MikeV Aug 31,2012 10:04 am

    So I poked around on that isidewith.com page that apparently Gary Johnson’s people created.

    Huge shock that I was 84% aligned with Gary Johnson, huh? LOL

    And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

    Thanks, and go As.

  27. MikeV Aug 31,2012 10:45 am

    I would just like to point out how far over my head 90% of this thread is.

    And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

    Thanks, and go As.

    • nevermoor Aug 31,2012 11:09 am || Up

      Don’t worry about it. You live in CA so your vote doesn’t matter!

      "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
      • MikeV Aug 31,2012 11:21 am || Up

        And I have to say: mikev is one of my favorite people on here -slusser.

        Thanks, and go As.

  28. nevermoor Aug 31,2012 11:11 am

    Good work Mitt!

    Romneynomics 2012 is literally identical to McCainomics 2008, Bushnomics 2004, and Bushnomics 2000. Drill, baby, drill; cut taxes on rich people (why didn’t we think of that?); and so on.

    . . . . Romney says that his plan would create 12 million jobs in his first term. Leaving aside the fact that this is about what forecasters on average predict in any case, surely we should ask how the identical policies worked out in Bush’s two terms. And the answer is: zero job growth in term one (and a fall in private sector employment), one million in term two. Oh, and private sector employment lower when Bush left office than when he arrived

    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
    • dmoas Aug 31,2012 11:24 am || Up

      Now wait a minute. You’re forgetting the single most important part of his plan. The part that fully justifies that cost. More. Old. Rich. White. Dudes.

    • Glorious Mundy Aug 31,2012 11:25 am || Up

      Why do you, and Krugman, hate America so much? America is awesome, and only Mitt understands that. USA! USA!

    • Kylianna Sep 1,2012 12:12 am || Up

      What is it that they say about repeating the same experiment and expecting different results…?

      • dmoas Sep 1,2012 12:25 am || Up

        The GOP master plan?

      • SPWC Sep 1,2012 7:10 am || Up

        It’s not an experiment; It’s a psychosis.

        \"Weren\'t you already aware the Kay is already writing everyone\'s story? We\'re all just characters who believe we are real. Things make more sense now, don\'t they. Be honest.\"- DMOAS
      • Glorious Mundy Sep 1,2012 5:22 pm || Up

        Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…won’t get fooled again.

        • FreeSeatUpgrade Sep 2,2012 8:24 am || Up

          Put food on your family!

          "Kraut will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no kraut."

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